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Fasting
Jul 18, 2018 10:25:18 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 18, 2018 10:25:18 GMT -5
What would you eat if you were limited to eating what you could grow, and do you know how much land you'd need and where you'd get your seeds? Well, where I live, I could basically live on what grows on trees all year long - bananas, jackfruit, coconuts, mangos etc. If no one would cultivate it, it would just grow wild somewhere (and it actually does!)
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Fasting
Jul 18, 2018 10:30:03 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 18, 2018 10:30:03 GMT -5
I'd go so far as to agree that most people seem to never reflect on how they fit in with the food chain or what life was like a few hundred years ago or earlier. That was exactly my point. In the highly developed countries, people buy meat as they would buy cookies or pizza.
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Fasting
Jul 18, 2018 10:55:01 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 18, 2018 10:55:01 GMT -5
On a psychological level, it feels very empowering. You will know first hand that you don't need 3 square meals in order to stay healthy. And you will also know first hand that you've got an inner physician you can rely on. It really helps to let go of attachment to food, actually attachment or even addiction to any kind of substances. I've read some reports about chain smokers and drug addicts being clean after a week of fasting. I came across something interesting while I was still researching this. Not sure if you've ever heard of Hildegard of Bingen. I'm speaking from memory here so I may get the numbers wrong, but she had a list of roughly 30 vices. And according to her research, fasting did affect almost all of them in a positive way, except for one vice where the effect was rather negative. And that one vice was pride! Ah, that sounds so familiar! That's hil-arious. Hadn't heard of her before. Yes, I have to admit that this dialog is putting fasting into an entirely different light for me, thanks. This book compares facets of fast food and other American abominations to other addictive substances. He coined a word in it: "hyperpalatable". Yes, food additives fool your senses as do all spices. The more you have to add to your food in order to make it palatable, the more you are fooling your senses and therefore the less you should probably eat. About the pride thing, I think that's true, especially when people fast longer. And it's not just the folks who fast. I watched a lot of youtube videos on raw diets and a lot of those people have turned their diet into a religion and then look down on all the others who eat the standard western diet. Some even make fun of those who suffer from the typical diseases of western civilization. There's no compassion. And then there are those who want to save them or convert them. There's probably too much compassion. I looked up Hildegard's infamous vice list. It's actually a list of 35 pairs of virtues and their their negation (aka corresponding vice): That's quite a list. Not sure why exuberance is a vice, but I guess that's a nun thing. If Seth would see that he would just rip it apart! (lack exuberance was Jane's specific issue)
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Fasting
Jul 18, 2018 11:19:37 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 18, 2018 11:19:37 GMT -5
That's hil-arious. Hadn't heard of her before. Yes, I have to admit that this dialog is putting fasting into an entirely different light for me, thanks. This book compares facets of fast food and other American abominations to other addictive substances. He coined a word in it: "hyperpalatable". Must be in the cardio section of the gym for this kind of talk. Preferred diet of powerlifters, here in Americuh, is the three p's, Pizza, Pepsi and Beer. Lolly will vouch for this, though it might be slightly different in the Outback. When I was in the the outback I had mainly fish & chips enriched with the occasional emu sausage or a piece of crocodile or kangaroo meat.
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Fasting
Jul 18, 2018 12:20:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 12:20:04 GMT -5
Must be in the cardio section of the gym for this kind of talk. Preferred diet of powerlifters, here in Americuh, is the three p's, Pizza, Pepsi and Beer. Lolly will vouch for this, though it might be slightly different in the Outback. When I was in the the outback I had mainly fish & chips enriched with the occasional emu sausage or a piece of crocodile or kangaroo meat. Glad to see the hunter in you persists. I was beginning to grow leery, thinking the gatherer had consumed the former.
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Fasting
Jul 19, 2018 4:29:24 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Jul 19, 2018 4:29:24 GMT -5
What would you eat if you were limited to eating what you could grow, and do you know how much land you'd need and where you'd get your seeds? Well, where I live, I could basically live on what grows on trees all year long - bananas, jackfruit, coconuts, mangos etc. If no one would cultivate it, it would just grow wild somewhere (and it actually does!) (natural past) Climate change could have easily partly inspired the Garden of Eden story.
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Fasting
Jul 19, 2018 4:31:33 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Jul 19, 2018 4:31:33 GMT -5
I'd go so far as to agree that most people seem to never reflect on how they fit in with the food chain or what life was like a few hundred years ago or earlier. That was exactly my point. In the highly developed countries, people buy meat as they would buy cookies or pizza. Yeah, it goes with the territory of deep unconsciousness. Tends to manifest as ingratitude. All it takes is a little imagination to understand what we've gained by the advent of technology, cultural progression, and population growth. As well as what we've lost.
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Fasting
Jul 19, 2018 7:42:03 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Jul 19, 2018 7:42:03 GMT -5
That's hil-arious. Hadn't heard of her before. Yes, I have to admit that this dialog is putting fasting into an entirely different light for me, thanks. This book compares facets of fast food and other American abominations to other addictive substances. He coined a word in it: "hyperpalatable". Yes, food additives fool your senses as do all spices. The more you have to add to your food in order to make it palatable, the more you are fooling your senses and therefore the less you should probably eat. About the pride thing, I think that's true, especially when people fast longer. And it's not just the folks who fast. I watched a lot of youtube videos on raw diets and a lot of those people have turned their diet into a religion and then look down on all the others who eat the standard western diet. Some even make fun of those who suffer from the typical diseases of western civilization. There's no compassion. And then there are those who want to save them or convert them. There's probably too much compassion. I looked up Hildegard's infamous vice list. It's actually a list of 35 pairs of virtues and their their negation (aka corresponding vice): That's quite a list. Not sure why exuberance is a vice, but I guess that's a nun thing. If Seth would see that he would just rip it apart! (lack exuberance was Jane's specific issue) Have you read enough to know whether or not she ever had an unlikely encounter with the Tao?
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Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 0:49:30 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 25, 2018 0:49:30 GMT -5
When I was in the the outback I had mainly fish & chips enriched with the occasional emu sausage or a piece of crocodile or kangaroo meat. Glad to see the hunter in you persists. I was beginning to grow leery, thinking the gatherer had consumed the former. Never. Ever. Going to happen. I promise.
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Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 0:53:33 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 25, 2018 0:53:33 GMT -5
Well, where I live, I could basically live on what grows on trees all year long - bananas, jackfruit, coconuts, mangos etc. If no one would cultivate it, it would just grow wild somewhere (and it actually does!) (natural past) Climate change could have easily partly inspired the Garden of Eden story. What I find interesting (and sorta understandable) is that generally countries around or close the the tropics are the most blessed in terms of natural foods available but on the other hand are also the least developed in terms of culture, science and technology.
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Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 1:01:54 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 25, 2018 1:01:54 GMT -5
That was exactly my point. In the highly developed countries, people buy meat as they would buy cookies or pizza. Yeah, it goes with the territory of deep unconsciousness. Tends to manifest as ingratitude. All it takes is a little imagination to understand what we've gained by the advent of technology, cultural progression, and population growth. As well as what we've lost. Yes, no need to rage against the machines or technology. But there is a certain imbalance in the way it has played out so far. And about population growth or so-called 'overpopulation' - if you do the math, the earth is basically empty and almost uninhabited. What makes it seem otherwise are those rather severe imbalances in terms of distribution.
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Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 1:04:32 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 25, 2018 1:04:32 GMT -5
Yes, food additives fool your senses as do all spices. The more you have to add to your food in order to make it palatable, the more you are fooling your senses and therefore the less you should probably eat. About the pride thing, I think that's true, especially when people fast longer. And it's not just the folks who fast. I watched a lot of youtube videos on raw diets and a lot of those people have turned their diet into a religion and then look down on all the others who eat the standard western diet. Some even make fun of those who suffer from the typical diseases of western civilization. There's no compassion. And then there are those who want to save them or convert them. There's probably too much compassion. I looked up Hildegard's infamous vice list. It's actually a list of 35 pairs of virtues and their their negation (aka corresponding vice): That's quite a list. Not sure why exuberance is a vice, but I guess that's a nun thing. If Seth would see that he would just rip it apart! (lack exuberance was Jane's specific issue) Have you read enough to know whether or not she ever had an unlikely encounter with the Tao? No. Never read any of her works. Her names sometimes shows up in the context of natural medicine/remedies.
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Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 1:21:55 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 25, 2018 1:21:55 GMT -5
So have you transitioned back to allowing some of the processed carbs again? My go-to strategy in the perpetual losing battle of the bulge was always exercise. When injury put me down I turned to Atkins, so the more dramatic weight losses I've had in my life have ironically been when I was sedentary, watching the pee stick turn purple. European history suggests why certain segments of the population do better with fewer carbs. Especially the deep, pre-history from archeology and modern genealogy. Yea body composition is like 80-90% about the food intake and less about exercise (unless you do A LOT.) I was at my lightest while training for marathons -- food intake couldn't keep up. I also shed pounds easily on this Atkins/Keto thingy. Unlike in the marathon days, I'm actually stronger now. Higher protein intake and resistance training has led to increased lean muscle mass. All that running burned quite a lot of muscle mass. I'm still not eating refined carbs (no sugar no grains -- nsng). I eat mostly 'above ground' plants and not too much fruit and meat. My issue now is maintaining or growing muscle while trying to keep my insulin levels low. The latter is important cuz of Type 3 Diabetes (aka Alzheimer's Disease, prevalent in fam history). re: the only thing folks seem to agree on regarding AD prevention is exercise. But there is some hope in the Type3Diabetes realm -- that neurons have developed some sort of insulin resistance and are no longer as able to metabolize glucose. Basically I'm doing a Hail Mary pass, thinking that keeping insulin load low is good. In the meantime, the nsng/keto has been pretty easy and has kept me lean and strong and clearheaded. That said, I do partake in carbs now and then -- like when my kids bake treats or on special occasions. Also, beer! That's what I would call micro-managing. Sometimes dire situations call for drastic measures and in that sense have their place (such as a radical change in diet), but as a general life style, I wouldn't recommend it because this is working on the lowest level of manifestation which is the least effective method. And it usually is not sustainable (or only with great discipline/effort) unless the actual underlying issue of the disease is addressed. Here's an interesting quote: In that sense, I find the psychosomatic approach very interesting and helpful. Here, the illness itself isn't the actual problem. The illness is just a more obvious manifestation of something else. It is just an indicator, a pointer. Our language can be a very helpful tool here. If you've got chronic neck pain, then it may be worth asking if there's a situation or someone who is a constant a 'pain in the neck'. This way you go to a higher level of dealing with the illness. And a little bit of tweaking on the psychological level can have huge consequences on the physical level. I've seen this in the context of so-called spontaneous or miraculous healings. But in the end, even that isn't the real cause, as the quote is already implying. So while changes in diet can be of great help, I don't think it is the solution. And from the non-physical perspective, it's actually counter-intuitive.
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Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 1:28:10 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 25, 2018 1:28:10 GMT -5
Yea body composition is like 80-90% about the food intake and less about exercise (unless you do A LOT.) I was at my lightest while training for marathons -- food intake couldn't keep up. I also shed pounds easily on this Atkins/Keto thingy. Unlike in the marathon days, I'm actually stronger now. Higher protein intake and resistance training has led to increased lean muscle mass. All that running burned quite a lot of muscle mass. I'm still not eating refined carbs (no sugar no grains -- nsng). I eat mostly 'above ground' plants and not too much fruit and meat. My issue now is maintaining or growing muscle while trying to keep my insulin levels low. The latter is important cuz of Type 3 Diabetes (aka Alzheimer's Disease, prevalent in fam history). re: the only thing folks seem to agree on regarding AD prevention is exercise. But there is some hope in the Type3Diabetes realm -- that neurons have developed some sort of insulin resistance and are no longer as able to metabolize glucose. Basically I'm doing a Hail Mary pass, thinking that keeping insulin load low is good. In the meantime, the nsng/keto has been pretty easy and has kept me lean and strong and clearheaded. That said, I do partake in carbs now and then -- like when my kids bake treats or on special occasions. Also, beer! Max, the best book I found on reducing blood sugar levels is Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution, The Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars by Richard K Bernstein. In 1946 at age 12 Berstein was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. In 1969 he started experimenting on himself checking his blood sugar levels 5-8 times a day. From this he was able to begin controling his blood sugar levels. By 1973 he tried to share what he had learned with others but nobody would listen to because of lack of credentials. So at age 45 he entered medical school and became a doctor. From different sources I also tried over a dozen supplements to help reduce blood sugar levels. The only one I found to really help is berberine. Get it, try it. Based on my research and experience so far the only thing that is required for a complete recovery or rejuvenation in general is prolonged periods of deep relaxation. And that's how I have seen fasting described at times, it allows the body to rest. And if we look at diseases (dis-ease) in that way, healing isn't exactly rocket science. It may play out in a million different ways on an individual level, but the principles behind it are always the same.
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Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 2:51:53 GMT -5
Post by lolly on Jul 25, 2018 2:51:53 GMT -5
The way I think about diet is using a triangle diagram.
Tier 1:On the bottom or the foundation, there are calories. The body needs energy to run, so the energy quota is foundational.
Tier 2: The next tier is the macronutrients: fat, protein and carbs, which contain practically all the calories. The proper distribution of these macronutrients is important to ensure adequate protein, but relative carbohydrate and fat distribution is very flexible.
Tier 3: The tier above that is micronutrients: vitamins and minerals.
Tier 4: The tier above that is meal frequency. What time meals are taken and how the nutrients are included in those meals. The 'meal frequency' tier is where fasting can be incorporated.
Tier 5: At the top of the triangle is dietry supplements. In this structured system of diet organisation there is no point addressing any tier unless the previous tier has been addressed. For example, you can't work out one's macronutrient quantities unless the calorie requirement has first been established, and there's no point addressing micronutrient amounts unless the macro distribution is sorted out. Then there is no use planning meal frequency (and nutrient distribution across said meals) unless all the necessary calories and nutrients are known prior, and nutrient supplimentation can only be considered in view of shortfalls in everything else. In this view, fasting wouldn't be a high priority. It would be considered under 'meal frequency', which is second to last in priority. Hence I would not suggest fasting unless and/or until a proper nutrient profile has been pre-established. It would be optimal for most people to first ensure their body is well nourished before commencing any sort of prolonged fast. On the other hand, intermittent fasting (say, having a 6 hour feeding window each day) could be implemented immediately (health conditions permitting).
Basically, I think a 'pre-fast-prep' diet would be the go.
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