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Post by Reefs on Feb 24, 2023 23:59:35 GMT -5
The biggest issue I see is how many humans AI will replace. I called a company yesterday to request a form that it had failed to send me. The lady who answered the phone spoke such poor English that it took forever for me to communicate my simple need. Afterwards, I realized that she will soon be replaced by AI that will respond to me in perfect English and understand exactly what I'm calling about. I can see this happening in the very near future in many different contexts. The company I called was small and was obviously using a low-paid non-native English-speaking person to answer calls like mine. By contrast I called a large company last week with sufficient money to pay for an AI operator, and it was like talking to a college-educated English-speaking individual that understood everything I was asking about and responded instantly and correctly. In fact, I was rather stunned at the clarity and speed of the interaction. People might think that AI will only replace low-paid workers, but I suspect that this revolution will go far beyond that and much faster than most people expect. Yes, good point. This will be a challenge in the immediate future (this decade). AI can do all your secretary work already, compose your email, answer your phone, schedule meetings... So there will be a point in the near future where we have to redefine our identity as humans, our purpose for being. So far people define themselves thru the work they do, it gives them purpose and an identity. That model will be obsolete very soon when most of the jobs people do these days, especially menial, repetitive, uncreative jobs will be handed over to AI. This will send a lot of people into despair because they don't know what to do with their lives. But at the same time, there will be opportunities never dreamed of because we get back so much more time. Instead of spending 8-10 hours or more per day on things we have to do, we then can spend that same amount of time on things that we actually want to do. Which is great for those who actually know what they want because they know who they are. But it is scary for those who don't actually know what they want because they don't know who they are. |
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Post by inavalan on Feb 25, 2023 0:08:06 GMT -5
If I create my reality, then it doesn't matter what another human, cat, meteorite, AI decides to do.
Also, I don't think that there is any reason to fear more what an AI could do, than what a human could. Nazis weren't/ aren't AI. Neither Pfizer, WEF, deep-state, ...
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Post by Reefs on Feb 25, 2023 6:26:55 GMT -5
If I create my reality, then it doesn't matter what another human, cat, meteorite, AI decides to do.Also, I don't think that there is any reason to fear more what an AI could do, than what a human could. Nazis weren't/ aren't AI. Neither Pfizer, WEF, deep-state, ... Yes, that's the bottom line. As Laughter noted, we are talking about artificial intelligence. And anything artificial cannot sustain itself. We should never forget that. The Matrix movies showed that masterfully. AI will always 'live' on borrowed energy and borrowed time. As for the promised dystopia, I am reminded of Seth's 'biological optimism'. So I don't even see that as an option. Utopia is a much more natural option and therefore in the end will prevail. |
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Post by laughter on Feb 25, 2023 21:48:53 GMT -5
The biggest issue I see is how many humans AI will replace. I called a company yesterday to request a form that it had failed to send me. The lady who answered the phone spoke such poor English that it took forever for me to communicate my simple need. Afterwards, I realized that she will soon be replaced by AI that will respond to me in perfect English and understand exactly what I'm calling about. I can see this happening in the very near future in many different contexts. The company I called was small and was obviously using a low-paid non-native English-speaking person to answer calls like mine. By contrast I called a large company last week with sufficient money to pay for an AI operator, and it was like talking to a college-educated English-speaking individual that understood everything I was asking about and responded instantly and correctly. In fact, I was rather stunned at the clarity and speed of the interaction. People might think that AI will only replace low-paid workers, but I suspect that this revolution will go far beyond that and much faster than most people expect. Automation has been one of the disruptive forces to labor markets generally for some time, and the software development industry has been no stranger to that trend for decades now. I could explain with details. Now the "generative" simulations are good enough to express a "personality" of a sort, and so can replace customer service reps. This is a change that's publicly visible. Obviously this sort of public visibility has been happening on factory floors for much longer. On the flip side, do you recall that story you told a few years back about the concrete-truck driver who took out a residential power-line hookup?  It would take a very sophisticated physical bot to have done what you did, and not because what you did couldn't be automated, but the specific decisions you made in an unexpected situation have to emerge from the model. I can think of specific examples that haven't been automated (to my knowledge) that you'd might think should have by now - like say, oil rig roughneck. And another facet of this is expressed by some of those pics making the rounds of the African cobalt mines. Not saying the disruption to the labor markets hasn't happened or going to happen, but that it's a rather complicated mixed bag how it eventually plays out. |
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Post by inavalan on Feb 26, 2023 14:59:48 GMT -5
GIGO Principle: Garbage In => Garbage Out.  |
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Post by zendancer on Feb 26, 2023 17:30:02 GMT -5
The biggest issue I see is how many humans AI will replace. I called a company yesterday to request a form that it had failed to send me. The lady who answered the phone spoke such poor English that it took forever for me to communicate my simple need. Afterwards, I realized that she will soon be replaced by AI that will respond to me in perfect English and understand exactly what I'm calling about. I can see this happening in the very near future in many different contexts. The company I called was small and was obviously using a low-paid non-native English-speaking person to answer calls like mine. By contrast I called a large company last week with sufficient money to pay for an AI operator, and it was like talking to a college-educated English-speaking individual that understood everything I was asking about and responded instantly and correctly. In fact, I was rather stunned at the clarity and speed of the interaction. People might think that AI will only replace low-paid workers, but I suspect that this revolution will go far beyond that and much faster than most people expect. Automation has been one of the disruptive forces to labor markets generally for some time, and the software development industry has been no stranger to that trend for decades now. I could explain with details. Now the "generative" simulations are good enough to express a "personality" of a sort, and so can replace customer service reps. This is a change that's publicly visible. Obviously this sort of public visibility has been happening on factory floors for much longer. On the flip side, do you recall that story you told a few years back about the concrete-truck driver who took out a residential power-line hookup? It would take a very sophisticated physical bot to have done what you did, and not because what you did couldn't be automated, but the specific decisions you made in an unexpected situation have to emerge from the model. I can think of specific examples that haven't been automated (to my knowledge) that you'd might think should have by now - like say, oil rig roughneck. And another facet of this is expressed by some of those pics making the rounds of the African cobalt mines. Not saying the disruption to the labor markets hasn't happened or going to happen, but that it's a rather complicated mixed bag how it eventually plays out. So true, and I suspect that most of us understand how advances in technology both destroy jobs and also create new ones. Today Carol and I were thinking about other types of meta-analyses that AI will be able to do. Today we often go on the net and research things we're interested in, and in the process we may read ten different articles to get multiple points of view and a general sense of whether a generalized consensus POV exists. Soon, AI will review everything that has ever been published in the entire world in every language about a particular topic, analyze all of that info, and condense everything into one response that will give us the potential odds regarding the outcome of every action that one might potentially take. Rather than having to read through 10 or 15 different articles or research papers, which would be a small portion of the total info available, AI will do all of that in one second and spit out an answer to whatever we're interested in learning. The implications are rather staggering. |
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Post by laughter on Feb 26, 2023 19:36:56 GMT -5
Automation has been one of the disruptive forces to labor markets generally for some time, and the software development industry has been no stranger to that trend for decades now. I could explain with details. Now the "generative" simulations are good enough to express a "personality" of a sort, and so can replace customer service reps. This is a change that's publicly visible. Obviously this sort of public visibility has been happening on factory floors for much longer. On the flip side, do you recall that story you told a few years back about the concrete-truck driver who took out a residential power-line hookup? It would take a very sophisticated physical bot to have done what you did, and not because what you did couldn't be automated, but the specific decisions you made in an unexpected situation have to emerge from the model. I can think of specific examples that haven't been automated (to my knowledge) that you'd might think should have by now - like say, oil rig roughneck. And another facet of this is expressed by some of those pics making the rounds of the African cobalt mines. Not saying the disruption to the labor markets hasn't happened or going to happen, but that it's a rather complicated mixed bag how it eventually plays out. So true, and I suspect that most of us understand how advances in technology both destroy jobs and also create new ones. Today Carol and I were thinking about other types of meta-analyses that AI will be able to do. Today we often go on the net and research things we're interested in, and in the process we may read ten different articles to get multiple points of view and a general sense of whether a generalized consensus POV exists. Soon, AI will review everything that has ever been published in the entire world in every language about a particular topic, analyze all of that info, and condense everything into one response that will give us the potential odds regarding the outcome of every action that one might potentially take. Rather than having to read through 10 or 15 different articles or research papers, which would be a small portion of the total info available, AI will do all of that in one second and spit out an answer to whatever we're interested in learning. The implications are rather staggering. Yes, I can say from first hand experience that designing and building a relational database is an art that can be automated with today's tech and a well-funded and qualified team. This was portrayed in Star Trek in multiple episodes - the Capt. would order the computer to do it by voice command - even the original series before the terminology "relational database" had yet been invented. I'd intuit this is a foundation layer of these new chat bots, with statistical processing layered over to generate what you're envisioning. The dialog-capability is like a glue layer. |
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Post by lolly on Feb 27, 2023 2:05:33 GMT -5
It's really hard to make science fiction these days. By the time you finish the move it's already real. Remember the Star Trek flip phones?
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Post by Reefs on Mar 2, 2023 0:06:12 GMT -5
I share your sentiment. 'AI' is about 'better results' or 'improved performance', and I don't think life is about that. I'm all for following our creative passions and desires, but it's for the joy of it, and 'improvement' is a secondary benefit. The juice of life is in the 'inspiration', because inspiration is divine. For all AI's capacity for excellent performance, it won't be 'inspired' performance. And if we aren't careful, we will hand over our own inspiration to the bots. As I see it, " artificial intelligence" is less dangerous than " natural stupidity", the kind we see around us, in our political leaders, in the masses that blindly follow them, in science, military, communities, everywhere. I doubt that an AI would've brought the world where it is now, and on its current trajectory. Cipolla’s 5 Laws of Human Stupidity... |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 2, 2023 11:22:36 GMT -5
It's really hard to make science fiction these days. By the time you finish the move it's already real. Remember the Star Trek flip phones? When I see programs, documentary-like, interviews, etc., I watch, I've seen multiple such programs. I'm pretty sure I recall that the guy who designed the flip phone, copied the idea off the original Star Trek.  |
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Post by inavalan on Mar 2, 2023 14:37:46 GMT -5
It's really hard to make science fiction these days. By the time you finish the move it's already real. Remember the Star Trek flip phones? When I see programs, documentary-like, interviews, etc., I watch, I've seen multiple such programs. I'm pretty sure I recall that the guy who designed the flip phone, copied the idea off the original Star Trek.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_StarTACen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clamshell_design |
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Post by laughter on Mar 5, 2023 11:54:56 GMT -5
It's really hard to make science fiction these days. By the time you finish the move it's already real. Remember the Star Trek flip phones? When I see programs, documentary-like, interviews, etc., I watch, I've seen multiple such programs. I'm pretty sure I recall that the guy who designed the flip phone, copied the idea off the original Star Trek. In the latest series Capt. Pike is in bed with his girlfriend and his communicator starts beeping and she asks him if he's going to answer his phone.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 16:58:40 GMT -5
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Post by steven on Apr 6, 2023 18:52:54 GMT -5
Recently I've been listening to some talks and interviews with Michael Mckibben (founder of Leader Technologies) whose view on A.I. pretty much dovetails with my own version which contradicts the officially promoted dystopian version of A.I. that is a threat to humanity and is going to replace humans. He basically says that there is no such thing as artificial intelligence. And all those issues with so-called A.I. that haven been envisioned dystopian movies are all solvable because they are nothing else but engineering problems. Another key point re A.I replacing humans is that A.I. is just mimicking the nervous system. Any thoughts? Totally agree. What we call "AI" is something like a cartoon of intelligence in the same way as an image/idea of a tree is a cartoon representing what a "tree" is. AI is not artificial intelligence; it is artificial cognition/cogitation. Whats interesting to me about AI is that some of my grand realization moments indicated that reality as we experience it is created by experiencing it, the creator and the created are one, the observer and the observed are one, and that the observed is created by the vary act of observing. Looking through those lenses it puts a different view on things like scientific discovery etc…in that if the observed is created by the observer observing then Scientists are actually creating what they are discovering when operating out on the leading edge of science, which also means that as long as we keep looking farther we’ll never find the end of the universe etc. It’s from our shared consciousness, that one awareness in all of us that the creative observing comes from. I guess it’s possible for AI to somehow gain consciousness but since there seems to be only one consciousness pervading all sentient beings that would mean AI would become sentient observing from the same consciousness that we are in order to become a creative observer like us. Possible, but not likely. Instead I suspect that AI will be limited to what it’s already getting good at, which is utilizing advanced computational ability on large data sets to create new correlations of existing manifestations of reality. It won’t make new discoveries that have of groundbreaking observational creativity. |
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Post by steven on Apr 6, 2023 19:12:54 GMT -5
The biggest issue I see is how many humans AI will replace. I called a company yesterday to request a form that it had failed to send me. The lady who answered the phone spoke such poor English that it took forever for me to communicate my simple need. Afterwards, I realized that she will soon be replaced by AI that will respond to me in perfect English and understand exactly what I'm calling about. I can see this happening in the very near future in many different contexts. The company I called was small and was obviously using a low-paid non-native English-speaking person to answer calls like mine. By contrast I called a large company last week with sufficient money to pay for an AI operator, and it was like talking to a college-educated English-speaking individual that understood everything I was asking about and responded instantly and correctly. In fact, I was rather stunned at the clarity and speed of the interaction. People might think that AI will only replace low-paid workers, but I suspect that this revolution will go far beyond that and much faster than most people expect. Yes, good point. This will be a challenge in the immediate future (this decade). AI can do all your secretary work already, compose your email, answer your phone, schedule meetings... So there will be a point in the near future where we have to redefine our identity as humans, our purpose for being. So far people define themselves thru the work they do, it gives them purpose and an identity. That model will be obsolete very soon when most of the jobs people do these days, especially menial, repetitive, uncreative jobs will be handed over to AI. This will send a lot of people into despair because they don't know what to do with their lives. But at the same time, there will be opportunities never dreamed of because we get back so much more time. Instead of spending 8-10 hours or more per day on things we have to do, we then can spend that same amount of time on things that we actually want to do. Which is great for those who actually know what they want because they know who they are. But it is scary for those who don't actually know what they want because they don't know who they are. Exactly, most economist agree that in the next 25 years 40% of all existing job rolls will be eliminated by AI and Robotics, and the remaining 60% will be performed more efficiently so there is likely to be up 60% to 80% unemployment, certainly in our children’s lifetimes. Unlike the 1st and 2nd industrial revolutions those jobs will not be replaced with newer modern era jobs. With north of 60% unemployment there will be wholesale changes in how societies work, economists have know about this for so long that studies have already been conducted on Universal Income in a few countries around the world to examine its affect, with some surprising results, so we will likely see a period of Universal Income checks issued from governments to citizens in order to keep a monetary system functioning with unemployment that high, certainly there will be some social unrest for a bit to, and ultimate it won’t be sustainable to even have a monetary system with unemployment levels at 60 to 80%. Already you see other things replacing money as our social pecking order currency being replaced with social media clout and notoriety become the new currency of social status; not money in younger generations. One can only hope that is only a stepping stone on the way to accomplishment and merit being the currency of society instead of money or social media notoriety. What’s interesting to me, is that we are all aware of how fast technological development has accelerated and continuous to accelerate, this is largely because both the 1st and 2nd industrial revelations dramatically shortened the average persons work week, that extra free time not need for survival also freed up mental capacity and bandwidth that in turn lead to the acceleration of technological development as well as an increase perfusion of ‘spiritual’ development and self awareness. Which then makes it fascinating to think about how much more things will accelerate across the range if human and societal development when 60 to 80% of humanity has nothing but free time to explore whatever they chose. |
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It would take a very sophisticated physical bot to have done what you did, and not because what you did couldn't be automated, but the specific decisions you made in an unexpected situation have to emerge from the model. 
