Faith has an expiration date...

[Peter]

Nov 4, 2009 17:01:01 GMT -5 karen said:

Thanks guys. I wasn't being clear, and I wasn't revealing the assumed context that you would not know of course.

I was contrasting faith as belief - such as having faith in Jesus for example - rather than faith expressed in action were at least I can feel momentum.

Hmm, OK so as far as context goes you've narrowed it down from the Imaginary World to the Real (ha!) World, but I'm not following it any further than that. You're such a Dark Horse, Karen.

What is it you're actually doing, and have you had any results in the past two weeks? What is your "action"?

[karen]

Hi Peter.

I'm not sure about the context of your question. Real world?

As far as results go, that is in relation to any specific gimmick that I come up with. If it don't work, I move on. It seems to take two weeks. Work as defined by realizing the negation of my assumed beliefs (that would be the gold standard). Faith in faith (religion) is a poor gimmick that I predict poor results (I've tried).

Action like riding a bike vs. having someone tell you how to ride a bike. But here, the best example (only one I can think of) is letting go of thoughts in the face of temptation to go along and believe them would be action whereas thinking about letting go.

Be well.

[Peter]

I suspect this is one of those conversations that could be quickly sorted out face to face over a cup of tea, but which will alternatively take long game of email tennis to clarify.

You were contrasting two types of faith:

1. Faith as Belief eg faith in Jesus. This I see as working with the imaginary world, that is to say, the world of ideas.

2. Faith expressed in action. This I see as working with the real world, that is to say actually doing something in the world around us, consensual reality.

So if we're talking about action in the world, then that would have concrete and specific examples of what action is being taken. Otherwise our spiritual practice becomes mere tinkling of cymbals. Which is why my first question to you was:
"What is it you're up to?"
and my second question was:
"What is it you're actually doing?"

So I'm looking for specifics here, and I apologise if that's being nosey. What is the "specific gimmick" that you were working with when you started this subject? As discussed, there's no way to say if two weeks is a reasonable time frame for results without knowing what is being attempted.

The swear word checker has corrupted your last posting, but it seems like one way you're measuring your progress is by the number of as5umed beliefs that you negate - you say this is your gold standard. How are you going about identifying these beliefs - in practical terms?

You say that to 'believe' thoughts is action, but is this not the passive path of least resistance that represents the standard mechanical response of most of humanity? As I see it, it's grabbing these thoughts and saying "where did that thought come from?" and then letting them go - that's REAL action. It takes mental effort, at least at first.

Personally speaking (because any question I ask I should be willing to answer myself), I've moved to a position of "Everything is Spiritual" and allowing the Universe to teach me any lessons it might choose. Yesterday that involved the fridge apparently breaking and kids screaming, and today it involves telling someone that I've given negative feedback about their work to their boss.

Nov 4, 2009 17:01:01 GMT -5 karen said:

For so much of my life faith was vapid, and dark, and "out there". Whereas me having faith in taking a genuine new direction has usually been revealed in a two week time frame it seems.

What you've written seems very generalized. I have to question myself here on what it is I'm looking for from you (and why) and of course you have every right to keep as much to yourself as you wish and reveal nothing. I just feel it's like you're standing up in front of a support group and saying something like: "I had this thing, but it wasn't working out, so then I tried this different thing and it was much better". It feels like you're hiding. But of course, you have every right to do so, regardless of whether that is a conscious or a subconscious choice.

Funny, I get the strong feeling that this conversation is linked as a life lesson with my feedback to my work colleague. Both involve creating the circumstances where a woman could be annoyed with me - something I usually avoid like the plague

Cheers,
Peter

[karen]

Hi Peter,

I'm not so sure that even a cup of tea would suffice.

But I will try to point out the gimmick as best I can. Maybe everyone on the planet is aware of this or not.

The biggest and most helpful gimmick for me was to lay my attention onto my attending.

So look at a spot that has no emotional impact, and focus on that spot and feel the attention and then try to find its source as I stay focused on the spot. It fells like you can't look right into it because it disappears. So I approached it from another direction. As I approached it that way then it skips again. There's a boost of energy after "doing it" like a battery.

As far as me not sharing so much, you might be right. It's not intentional. If you were even more specific in your questions it would be easier to answer.

I don't journal, and I try not to remember anything specific along the way, but rather I keep an over all direction I need to be going.

I gave up the whole enlightenment business about a year ago, and it was most helpful because it seemed it kept on going regardless.

It seems just about every post at this forum has been helpful to me too.

[divinity]

Karen, if you believe that faith has an expiration date, it WILL have an expiration date. If you can focus only on the thing you want to accomplish, as if it is already accomplished, you may have better luck bringing it into being. Of course don't be surprised if just as it is about to happen that you are already off on another desire and focusing on yet another wonderful thing to manifest.