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Post by quinn on Nov 21, 2015 18:13:20 GMT -5
Just a reminder: what Tano IS cannot be imagined. Hey ZD, yes, butt ... Zen Master Ummon was asked once, What is Buddha? His reply, Dry sh!t on a stick. .......I didn't get this for a long time, what he was referring to, and then it hit me one day. I had an uncle who was a dairy farmer, and grew some corn for silage for feed, but some for hard corn which was ground into corn meal, a treat for the cows as they were milked (and also an easy way to give them vitamins and minerals). A byproduct of this corn was a dry corncob (unlike silage where everything was used, corn stalk, corncob and corn). Now I have never used a dry corncob, because of the new invention called toilet paper, but its use was known to me as it was spoken of from time to time, usually in some kind of humor, and I have since seen novelty items saying, redneck toilet paper. Saying all that to say that I realized Ummon's sh!t stick was used "toilet paper"  . And saying all that to say that one of the differences between Brahman and Atman, is that the tano-Atman necessarily needs the use of a "corncob", and Brahman never does. Haha! I have a much simpler interpretation. That Buddha shouldn't be revered any more than any manifestation no matter how lowly the manifestation (dry sh!t on a stick). It's all Buddha. |
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 21, 2015 18:23:46 GMT -5
The substance of that message is consistent with my understandings..
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Post by figgles on Nov 21, 2015 19:17:55 GMT -5
Just a reminder: what Tano IS cannot be imagined. Hey ZD, yes, butt ... Zen Master Ummon was asked once, What is Buddha? His reply, Dry sh!t on a stick. .......I didn't get this for a long time, what he was referring to, and then it hit me one day. I had an uncle who was a dairy farmer, and grew some corn for silage for feed, but some for hard corn which was ground into corn meal, a treat for the cows as they were milked (and also an easy way to give them vitamins and minerals). A byproduct of this corn was a dry corncob (unlike silage where everything was used, corn stalk, corncob and corn). Now I have never used a dry corncob, because of the new invention called toilet paper, but its use was known to me as it was spoken of from time to time, usually in some kind of humor, and I have since seen novelty items saying, redneck toilet paper. Saying all that to say that I realized Ummon's sh!t stick was used "toilet paper" . And saying all that to say that one of the differences between Brahman and Atman, is that the tano-Atman necessarily needs the use of a "corncob", and Brahman never does.  |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 22, 2015 8:58:22 GMT -5
Just a reminder: what Tano IS cannot be imagined. Hey ZD, yes, butt ... Zen Master Ummon was asked once, What is Buddha? His reply, Dry sh!t on a stick. .......I didn't get this for a long time, what he was referring to, and then it hit me one day. I had an uncle who was a dairy farmer, and grew some corn for silage for feed, but some for hard corn which was ground into corn meal, a treat for the cows as they were milked (and also an easy way to give them vitamins and minerals). A byproduct of this corn was a dry corncob (unlike silage where everything was used, corn stalk, corncob and corn). Now I have never used a dry corncob, because of the new invention called toilet paper, but its use was known to me as it was spoken of from time to time, usually in some kind of humor, and I have since seen novelty items saying, redneck toilet paper. Saying all that to say that I realized Ummon's sh!t stick was used "toilet paper" . And saying all that to say that one of the differences between Brahman and Atman, is that the tano-Atman necessarily needs the use of a "corncob", and Brahman never does. SDP: Unmon could have also answered, "Blue sky in the morning," but he used "Dry s!it on a stick" to graphically emphasize the failure of all ideas, especially holy spiritual ideas, regarding THIS. IMO, the whole Brahman/Atman distinction, as a pointer, is far less valuable than the simple admonition to stop, be still, and look. Ideas about Brahman and Atman just keep the mind in spin mode. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 22, 2015 9:20:30 GMT -5
Hey ZD, yes, butt ... Zen Master Ummon was asked once, What is Buddha? His reply, Dry sh!t on a stick. .......I didn't get this for a long time, what he was referring to, and then it hit me one day. I had an uncle who was a dairy farmer, and grew some corn for silage for feed, but some for hard corn which was ground into corn meal, a treat for the cows as they were milked (and also an easy way to give them vitamins and minerals). A byproduct of this corn was a dry corncob (unlike silage where everything was used, corn stalk, corncob and corn). Now I have never used a dry corncob, because of the new invention called toilet paper, but its use was known to me as it was spoken of from time to time, usually in some kind of humor, and I have since seen novelty items saying, redneck toilet paper. Saying all that to say that I realized Ummon's sh!t stick was used "toilet paper" . And saying all that to say that one of the differences between Brahman and Atman, is that the tano-Atman necessarily needs the use of a "corncob", and Brahman never does. SDP: Unmon could have also answered, "Blue sky in the morning," but he used "Dry s!it on a stick" to graphically emphasize the failure of all ideas, especially holy spiritual ideas, regarding THIS. IMO, the whole Brahman/Atman distinction, as a pointer, is far less valuable than the simple admonition to stop, be still, and look. Ideas about Brahman and Atman just keep the mind in spin mode. Sure...but, as a Zen Master would answer of the moment, I figured he had just done his business or was just about to.... |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 22, 2015 9:39:02 GMT -5
I use a bum gun instead. Hot here. Hey tano, I will google that... but I can speculate. Some years ago our main contractor built a house for a devout Muslim family. As was many times the case we started wiring while the plumber was still there. I noticed he was putting in additional plumbing in which I had never seen before...so I had to ask what it was (it wasn't a bidet). He said, this is a Muslim family, they don't use toilet paper. On the final trim out I saw the final instillation, it looked very much how I could imagine a bum gun to look. edit: After googling.....yes, that was it..... |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 22, 2015 9:43:35 GMT -5
SDP: Unmon could have also answered, "Blue sky in the morning," but he used "Dry s!it on a stick" to graphically emphasize the failure of all ideas, especially holy spiritual ideas, regarding THIS. IMO, the whole Brahman/Atman distinction, as a pointer, is far less valuable than the simple admonition to stop, be still, and look. Ideas about Brahman and Atman just keep the mind in spin mode.
Thank you, ZD. Simple, but not easy. I understand why the incessant questioning of another, be it here or through books... have done that too. Yet.. it wasn't what has smashed the lens. Grace is sometimes quite graceless.  |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 22, 2015 9:45:44 GMT -5
SDP: Unmon could have also answered, "Blue sky in the morning," but he used "Dry s!it on a stick" to graphically emphasize the failure of all ideas, especially holy spiritual ideas, regarding THIS. IMO, the whole Brahman/Atman distinction, as a pointer, is far less valuable than the simple admonition to stop, be still, and look. Ideas about Brahman and Atman just keep the mind in spin mode. Sure...but, as a Zen Master would answer of the moment, I figured he had just done his business or was just about to.... That's possible, but it's more probable that this was just the lowest thing that came to his mind at that moment. His point was that even the most mundane aspect of reality is as much THIS as the most sublime. Remember, he said, "DRY" s!it on a stick." LOL |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 11:04:54 GMT -5
Hey tano, I will google that... but I can speculate. Some years ago our main contractor built a house for a devout Muslim family. As was many times the case we started wiring while the plumber was still there. I noticed he was putting in additional plumbing in which I had never seen before...so I had to ask what it was (it wasn't a bidet). He said, this is a Muslim family, they don't use toilet paper. On the final trim out I saw the final instillation, it looked very much how I could imagine a bum gun to look. edit: After googling.....yes, that was it..... It's used all over Asia. Way more hygienic, and the heat will turn one's bum into a flaming sore without water. Are you in Asia. Where? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 22, 2015 11:38:04 GMT -5
Sure...but, as a Zen Master would answer of the moment, I figured he had just done his business or was just about to.... That's possible, but it's more probable that this was just the lowest thing that came to his mind at that moment. His point was that even the most mundane aspect of reality is as much THIS as the most sublime. Remember, he said, "DRY" s!it on a stick." LOL |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 11:41:50 GMT -5
Well I'm in Thailand and I too value my bum gun! |
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Post by figgles on Nov 22, 2015 12:38:46 GMT -5
Hehe...and yet you say this;
How did you conclude that about me if you did not 'analyse, compare of evaluate' my understanding against your own?
And, you seemed intent enough on convincing me that you actually were in agreement with Jed when I suggested you were saying something different. So clearly, you still do have some capacity still to compare in that way. What's behind the use of extreme exaggerated, inaccurate language..? It only serves to confuse that which is already not so easy to talk about.
Seems when you question someone else here, words are taken at face value and have a certain validity, and yet when your own words are questioned, suddenly 'all words uttered are a lie'.
No doubt, words are an imperfect means to relay these understandings, but particularly on a forum, that's all we got. We make the best of it.
I do not have a fixed "theory of everything".
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 22, 2015 13:08:52 GMT -5
Hehe...and yet you say this; How did you conclude that about me if you did not 'analyse, compare of evaluate' my understanding against your own? Seems when you question someone else here, words are taken at face value and have a certain validity, and yet when your own words are questioned, suddenly 'all words uttered are a lie'. No doubt, words are an imperfect means to relay these understandings, but particularly on a forum, that's all we got. We make the best of it. I do not have a fixed "theory of everything". She speaks to the difference between conclusions based in mentation and that which is seen in the absence of mentation. Niz: "The discovery of the truth is in the discernment of the false. You can know what is not. What is... you can only be." |
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Post by figgles on Nov 22, 2015 13:16:40 GMT -5
Hehe...and yet you say this; How did you conclude that about me if you did not 'analyse, compare of evaluate' my understanding against your own? Seems when you question someone else here, words are taken at face value and have a certain validity, and yet when your own words are questioned, suddenly 'all words uttered are a lie'. No doubt, words are an imperfect means to relay these understandings, but particularly on a forum, that's all we got. We make the best of it. I do not have a fixed "theory of everything". She speaks to the difference between conclusions based in mentation and that which is seen in the absence of mentation. Niz: "The discovery of the truth is in the discernment of the false. You can know what is not. What is... you can only be." she was saying something Jed McKenna has said.... anything that can be spoken (about truth) a lie. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4257/after-sr?page=8#ixzz3sFIpMc00 |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 22, 2015 13:25:45 GMT -5
She speaks to the difference between conclusions based in mentation and that which is seen in the absence of mentation. Niz: "The discovery of the truth is in the discernment of the false. You can know what is not. What is... you can only be." she was saying something Jed McKenna has said.... anything that can be spoken (about truth) a lie. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4257/after-sr?page=8#ixzz3sFIpMc00Didn't you ask her about the statement "It's way deeper than what you are currently able to perceive." with the question "How did you conclude that about me if you did not 'analyse, compare of evaluate' my understanding against your own?" |
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