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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 14, 2019 12:55:38 GMT -5
........ Yes, the idea of 3 centers is very useful, but idea is merely intellectual knowledge. But you specify the information, apply it to yourself, you thus indicate you understand from personal experience. Yes, they are unrelated (to each other) in my case also. I was ~introduced~ to my feeling/emotional center in the 9th grade in Jr high school (in a way other than anger/fear etc.). I was introduced (via certain events/people encounters) to a *side* of myself I didn't know anything about, yes, each in its own world. And I very understand 'cage'! (which for me went back to earliest memories). We can think we are going to do a certain thing, and end up doing something else, and we can have feelings/emotions which are unrelated to either the thinking or the doing. A first real aim is balancing the centers, or integrating them (Reefs), where one center does not predominate (one aspect of balancing the centers). ......... I am interested in the 'three types of foods' feeding these centers.. ie ordinary food, air, and impressions. What can you say about air and impressions as food? About their relation to centers? I will write some, later. Food is roughly related to the body, the moving and instinctive centers, obviously (and roughly bottom of body). Air is roughly related to the emotions/solar plexus center of the body, and to the second body, necessary food for the second body. Impressions, I don't know if I have ever written here about impressions before, are roughly related to the head/intellectual center. But I say roughly because all the centers are involved and the higher energies participate in activating/making accessible the two higher centers. Balanced means each center uses its appropriate energy. This is a very extensive subject, will try to give a brief overview. The whole of the universe is based on two fundamental laws, the law of 3 and the law of 7 (or law of octaves, 8 starting a repetition, either an ascending octave or a descending octave, as in the musical octave, do re mi fa sol la si(ti), and then do repeats as 8). All events, things, people operate according to these two laws. The law of 3 is the law of 3 forces, first force active/positive; 2nd force passive/negative (in the sense of polarity, not "bad"); 3rd force neutralizing/balancing. And both the macrocosm (the cosmos) and the microcosm (humanity being one microcosm) operate according to the law of 3 and the law of 7. All that to say that ordinary food, the digestion of food, operates according to both laws. Eating food starts the food octave. It automatically begins. But at a certain point, an interval, or gap, it would stop without air. So the intake of air begins a second octave, and at the same time it automatically gives a shock at the necessary place in the food octave to keep it going, that allows further transformation of energy. But then the air octave would also come to a stop when it reaches an interval in the octave, a gap between mi and fa (a similar gulf as in the food octave). This is where impressions enter the picture. Impressions are, for example, what enters the organism from the exterior world through the five senses. When you see a tree, the sensory nerves of the eye are activated, and this data is sent to the brain. Now, picture the ~receiving part~ of the brain as soft wax. The tree-data from the eye makes an *impression* in the wax. And so impressions thusly taken into the organism are also called food. So back to the air octave. At the mi-fa interval an impression gives a shock to the air octave, here, and the transformation of energy proceeds. Automatically/mechanically the food octave proceeds thusly and the end-product is si12, or sexual energy. The air octave proceeds thusly... Now, the impression octave only mechanically transforms to do re mi, and it stops there. For the transformation of energy to continue, to cross the mi-fa interval, a conscious shock is obligatory, here, for mi to transform to fa. This is called the first conscious shock. So all 3 foods are necessary for the ordinary functioning of the organism, for bodily-sensing and-doing, for feelings/emotions, and for thinking (and for sex), for the functioning of the five ordinary centers, the instinctive center, the moving center, the emotional center, the intellectual center and the sexual center.
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Post by zin on Dec 2, 2019 19:47:49 GMT -5
I am interested in the 'three types of foods' feeding these centers.. ie ordinary food, air, and impressions. What can you say about air and impressions as food? About their relation to centers? I will write some, later. Food is roughly related to the body, the moving and instinctive centers, obviously (and roughly bottom of body). Air is roughly related to the emotions/solar plexus center of the body, and to the second body, necessary food for the second body. Impressions, I don't know if I have ever written here about impressions before, are roughly related to the head/intellectual center. But I say roughly because all the centers are involved and the higher energies participate in activating/making accessible the two higher centers. Balanced means each center uses its appropriate energy. ........ Thank you. I still say I'll be back.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 2, 2019 20:47:31 GMT -5
Food is roughly related to the body, the moving and instinctive centers, obviously (and roughly bottom of body). Air is roughly related to the emotions/solar plexus center of the body, and to the second body, necessary food for the second body. Impressions, I don't know if I have ever written here about impressions before, are roughly related to the head/intellectual center. But I say roughly because all the centers are involved and the higher energies participate in activating/making accessible the two higher centers. Balanced means each center uses its appropriate energy. ........ Thank you. I still say I'll be back. OK.
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Post by zin on Feb 3, 2020 18:46:16 GMT -5
I am interested in the 'three types of foods' feeding these centers.. ie ordinary food, air, and impressions. What can you say about air and impressions as food? About their relation to centers? I will write some, later. Food is roughly related to the body, the moving and instinctive centers, obviously (and roughly bottom of body). Air is roughly related to the emotions/solar plexus center of the body, and to the second body, necessary food for the second body. Impressions, I don't know if I have ever written here about impressions before, are roughly related to the head/intellectual center. But I say roughly because all the centers are involved and the higher energies participate in activating/making accessible the two higher centers. Balanced means each center uses its appropriate energy. ........ These are related to a climb up towards the source, right? I have been reading on the 'worlds'.. and thinking on what is it that's 'left behind' while going through world 48 to world 24, for example. You may give an overall answer like 'personality' but I wonder about the specifics.
I read from Bennett that in world 48 we are like objects, and experiences do not have an inner counterpart. Then in world 24 we have our 'true selves', we live a natural life there but this is lived with the exclusion of others (other people). World 12 is about "I", "becoming liberated from laws of the selfhood" etc..
I don't know what kind of 'identity' is left in world 12? These may sound like too many constructs but the familiarity of the terms is valuable for a common language, at least in a Gurdjieff-related talk.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 4, 2020 0:54:00 GMT -5
Food is roughly related to the body, the moving and instinctive centers, obviously (and roughly bottom of body). Air is roughly related to the emotions/solar plexus center of the body, and to the second body, necessary food for the second body. Impressions, I don't know if I have ever written here about impressions before, are roughly related to the head/intellectual center. But I say roughly because all the centers are involved and the higher energies participate in activating/making accessible the two higher centers. Balanced means each center uses its appropriate energy. ........ These are related to a climb up towards the source, right? I have been reading on the 'worlds'.. and thinking on what is it that's 'left behind' while going through world 48 to world 24, for example. You may give an overall answer like 'personality' but I wonder about the specifics.
I read from Bennett that in world 48 we are like objects, and experiences do not have an inner counterpart. Then in world 24 we have our 'true selves', we live a natural life there but this is lived with the exclusion of others (other people). World 12 is about "I", "becoming liberated from laws of the selfhood" etc..
I don't know what kind of 'identity' is left in world 12? These may sound like too many constructs but the familiarity of the terms is valuable for a common language, at least in a Gurdjieff-related talk.
You can bring all that down to right now. You can bring all that down to energy. You are either gaining energy or losing energy. We are either transforming energy or wasting energy. Any move upward must necessarily take place right now. The move upward is just that, vertical. The horizontal movement is in time, the movement of past, present, future. Real movement is not a movement in time, horizontally. If we deal with ordinary energy, this is a movement in time. For us this is world 48. But where are the planets? Ordinary efforts leave us on the horizontal. To stay on the horizontal we have to take in food and air, transform food and air. With ordinary efforts impressions are not transformed...much, only a very little, maybe two notes. This very moment is an opportunity to make a conscious effort, or at least to use attention in a manner in which we know how to. And then the next moment is another opportunity. And then the next moment is another opportunity. Picture a ladder. If you use attention just a little it's like taking one step up, you actually leave the earth. If you use your attention, you transform impressions just a little, maybe from mi to fa. Now, eventually, one can taste something different. This is from leaving the earth, even a little, one or two steps up the ladder. Have you ever watched a baby try to learn to walk? Yes, of course you have. There is an inbuilt programming that keeps the baby trying. They try, fall down, try again. Eventually the baby learns to walk. But there is no inbuilt programming for making a conscious effort. There is no inbuilt programming for trying to take even one step up the ladder. You can only make a conscious effort right now, this present moment. When this moment is passed it can never come again, if no conscious effort, it is lost forever. But if one does make a conscious effort in this moment, the results are not lost, they accumulate. But stepping up the ladder is not easy, stepping down is easy. Say inside zin are 99 impulses to do what's easy (and to let your attention be captured by the easy things), maybe only one wish/impulse to ~do something for the higher~. But work for the higher is done *in life*, in the midst of ordinary life, while ordinary life is happening. But an >internal shift takes place< to work ~in the present moment, in life~, for this something higher. This inner shift is finding the one out of a hundred wish/impulse, really, to-be something other than what-one-now-is, that is, what ordinarily manifests. But this something that wishes to work, the one out of 100, is the True Zin, True Self, actual identity (or at least closer to True Zin). Essence "comes {down} from the stars". But you can only find ~what that is~, by working in the present moment. You can never reach world 12 by living only in time. But if you take even one step up a ladder, you are closer to the sun. Yes? The energy of fa is closer to world 12 than the energy of re, it is a finer energy. That's, the specifics (without being specific).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 4:09:24 GMT -5
These are related to a climb up towards the source, right? I have been reading on the 'worlds'.. and thinking on what is it that's 'left behind' while going through world 48 to world 24, for example. You may give an overall answer like 'personality' but I wonder about the specifics.
I read from Bennett that in world 48 we are like objects, and experiences do not have an inner counterpart. Then in world 24 we have our 'true selves', we live a natural life there but this is lived with the exclusion of others (other people). World 12 is about "I", "becoming liberated from laws of the selfhood" etc..
I don't know what kind of 'identity' is left in world 12? These may sound like too many constructs but the familiarity of the terms is valuable for a common language, at least in a Gurdjieff-related talk.
You can bring all that down to right now. You can bring all that down to energy. You are either gaining energy or losing energy. We are either transforming energy or wasting energy. Any move upward must necessarily take place right now. The move upward is just that, vertical. The horizontal movement is in time, the movement of past, present, future. Real movement is not a movement in time, horizontally. If we deal with ordinary energy, this is a movement in time. For us this is world 48. But where are the planets? Ordinary efforts leave us on the horizontal. To stay on the horizontal we have to take in food and air, transform food and air. With ordinary efforts impressions are not transformed...much, only a very little, maybe two notes. This very moment is an opportunity to make a conscious effort, or at least to use attention in a manner in which we know how to. And then the next moment is another opportunity. And then the next moment is another opportunity. Picture a ladder. If you use attention just a little it's like taking one step up, you actually leave the earth. If you use your attention, you transform impressions just a little, maybe from mi to fa. Now, eventually, one can taste something different. This is from leaving the earth, even a little, one or two steps up the ladder. Have you ever watched a baby try to learn to walk? Yes, of course you have. There is an inbuilt programming that keeps the baby trying. They try, fall down, try again. Eventually the baby learns to walk. But there is no inbuilt programming for making a conscious effort. There is no inbuilt programming for trying to take even one step up the ladder. You can only make a conscious effort right now, this present moment. When this moment is passed it can never come again, if no conscious effort, it is lost forever. But if one does make a conscious effort in this moment, the results are not lost, they accumulate. But stepping up the ladder is not easy, stepping down is easy. Say inside zin are 99 impulses to do what's easy (and to let your attention be captured by the easy things), maybe only one wish/impulse to ~do something for the higher~. But work for the higher is done *in life*, in the midst of ordinary life, while ordinary life is happening. But an >internal shift takes place< to work ~in the present moment, in life~, for this something higher. This inner shift is finding the one out of a hundred wish/impulse, really, to-be something other than what-one-now-is, that is, what ordinarily manifests. But this something that wishes to work, the one out of 100, is the True Zin, True Self, actual identity (or at least closer to True Zin). Essence "comes {down} from the stars". But you can only find ~what that is~, by working in the present moment. You can never reach world 12 by living only in time. But if you take even one step up a ladder, you are closer to the sun. Yes? The energy of fa is closer to world 12 than the energy of re, it is a finer energy. That's, the specifics (without being specific). Isn't world 12 where heavens and worlds become inseparable?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 4, 2020 11:49:51 GMT -5
You can bring all that down to right now. You can bring all that down to energy. You are either gaining energy or losing energy. We are either transforming energy or wasting energy. Any move upward must necessarily take place right now. The move upward is just that, vertical. The horizontal movement is in time, the movement of past, present, future. Real movement is not a movement in time, horizontally. If we deal with ordinary energy, this is a movement in time. For us this is world 48. But where are the planets? Ordinary efforts leave us on the horizontal. To stay on the horizontal we have to take in food and air, transform food and air. With ordinary efforts impressions are not transformed...much, only a very little, maybe two notes. This very moment is an opportunity to make a conscious effort, or at least to use attention in a manner in which we know how to. And then the next moment is another opportunity. And then the next moment is another opportunity. Picture a ladder. If you use attention just a little it's like taking one step up, you actually leave the earth. If you use your attention, you transform impressions just a little, maybe from mi to fa. Now, eventually, one can taste something different. This is from leaving the earth, even a little, one or two steps up the ladder. Have you ever watched a baby try to learn to walk? Yes, of course you have. There is an inbuilt programming that keeps the baby trying. They try, fall down, try again. Eventually the baby learns to walk. But there is no inbuilt programming for making a conscious effort. There is no inbuilt programming for trying to take even one step up the ladder. You can only make a conscious effort right now, this present moment. When this moment is passed it can never come again, if no conscious effort, it is lost forever. But if one does make a conscious effort in this moment, the results are not lost, they accumulate. But stepping up the ladder is not easy, stepping down is easy. Say inside zin are 99 impulses to do what's easy (and to let your attention be captured by the easy things), maybe only one wish/impulse to ~do something for the higher~. But work for the higher is done *in life*, in the midst of ordinary life, while ordinary life is happening. But an >internal shift takes place< to work ~in the present moment, in life~, for this something higher. This inner shift is finding the one out of a hundred wish/impulse, really, to-be something other than what-one-now-is, that is, what ordinarily manifests. But this something that wishes to work, the one out of 100, is the True Zin, True Self, actual identity (or at least closer to True Zin). Essence "comes {down} from the stars". But you can only find ~what that is~, by working in the present moment. You can never reach world 12 by living only in time. But if you take even one step up a ladder, you are closer to the sun. Yes? The energy of fa is closer to world 12 than the energy of re, it is a finer energy. That's, the specifics (without being specific). Isn't world 12 where heavens and worlds become inseparable? Even for Gurdjieff all that exists is One. I gave some quotes concerning this on the Macrocosm Microcosm thread. But only in the Absolute is this, without qualification. Our world is almost the ~bottom~ of manifestation. The very bottom is represented on earth by remorseless murderers and the types of people who prey on the innocent for their own benefit, for narcissistic wealth and power. Gurdjieff called this world 96, the moon. So no, world 12 is not an exception. There is still a kind of division between world 12 and the next world up, world 6. Picture a seven step ladder. Between step 3 and 4 there is a gap, a missing step. The gap is too wide to step from 3 to 4, this is called an interval, or stopinder. And then between step seven and step one of the next level, step one of the new do, there is another interval. One crosses over to a different ladder. In a sense the person/individual has to build a step at these intervals. They have to supply the energy to cross the interval. So in all of the universe, all the worlds, there is this same structuring. Seven octaves. When the person/individual reaches a new level, there is unity/oneness, for him or her, there and below. But not upwards, not experientially. Between world 12 and world 6 this structure still exists, with intervals. Incidentally, these intervals exist in every aspect of life. Everything operates from the two fundamental laws of the universe, the law of three (forces) and the law of seven. Everything. Gurdjieff started teaching about 1912 in Russia. Going back to these earliest teachings it can be seen that the universe according to Gurdjieff is a quantum universe, the intervals correspond to discontinuity in QM. Likewise, the whole of Gurdjieff's teaching is about overcoming entropy, in oneself, the merciless heropass.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 13:17:53 GMT -5
Isn't world 12 where heavens and worlds become inseparable? Gurdjieff started teaching about 1912 in Russia. Going back to these earliest teachings it can be seen that the universe according to Gurdjieff is a quantum universe, the intervals correspond to discontinuity in QM. Likewise, the whole of Gurdjieff's teaching is about overcoming entropy, in oneself, the merciless heropass. Just ran a quick search and it says that the Merciless Heropass is Time.. ??
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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 4, 2020 13:26:59 GMT -5
Gurdjieff started teaching about 1912 in Russia. Going back to these earliest teachings it can be seen that the universe according to Gurdjieff is a quantum universe, the intervals correspond to discontinuity in QM. Likewise, the whole of Gurdjieff's teaching is about overcoming entropy, in oneself, the merciless heropass. Just ran a quick search and it says that the Merciless Heropass is Time.. ?? The merciless heropass is Krsna " I Am Time" , says Krsna In an article, Mathuresa Dasa says: "In the Bhagavad-Gita, Lord Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, gives his own answer in a few words. 'Time I am. The great destroyer of the worlds.' Time, according to the Gita and other Vedic literatures, is an inconceivable energy of the Supreme Lord, through which He ultimately destroys everything."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 14:45:35 GMT -5
Just ran a quick search and it says that the Merciless Heropass is Time.. ?? The merciless heropass is Krsna " I Am Time" , says Krsna In an article, Mathuresa Dasa says: "In the Bhagavad-Gita, Lord Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, gives his own answer in a few words. 'Time I am. The great destroyer of the worlds.' Time, according to the Gita and other Vedic literatures, is an inconceivable energy of the Supreme Lord, through which He ultimately destroys everything." Then Krsna is an illusion. Case closed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 15:00:39 GMT -5
Isn't world 12 where heavens and worlds become inseparable? Even for Gurdjieff all that exists is One. I gave some quotes concerning this on the Macrocosm Microcosm thread. But only in the Absolute is this, without qualification. Our world is almost the ~bottom~ of manifestation. The very bottom is represented on earth by remorseless murderers and the types of people who prey on the innocent for their own benefit, for narcissistic wealth and power. Gurdjieff called this world 96, the moon. So no, world 12 is not an exception. There is still a kind of division between world 12 and the next world up, world 6. Picture a seven step ladder. Between step 3 and 4 there is a gap, a missing step. The gap is too wide to step from 3 to 4, this is called an interval, or stopender. And then between step seven and step one of the next level, step one of the new do, there is another interval. One crosses over to a different ladder. In a sense the person/individual has to build a step at these intervals. They have to supply the energy to cross the interval. So in all of the universe, all the worlds, there is this same structuring. Seven octaves. When the person/individual reaches a new level, there is unity/oneness, for him or her, there and below. But not upwards, not experientially. Between world 12 and world 6 this structure still exists, with intervals. Incidentally, these intervals exist in every aspect of life. Everything operates from the two fundamental laws of the universe, the law of three (forces) and the law of seven. Everything. Gurdjieff started teaching about 1912 in Russia. Going back to these earliest teachings it can be seen that the universe according to Gurdjieff is a quantum universe, the intervals correspond to discontinuity in QM. Likewise, the whole of Gurdjieff's teaching is about overcoming entropy, in oneself, the merciless heropass. Is there any channelled work from Gurdjieff from after 1949?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 4, 2020 15:05:38 GMT -5
Gurdjieff started teaching about 1912 in Russia. Going back to these earliest teachings it can be seen that the universe according to Gurdjieff is a quantum universe, the intervals correspond to discontinuity in QM. Likewise, the whole of Gurdjieff's teaching is about overcoming entropy, in oneself, the merciless heropass. Just ran a quick search and it says that the Merciless Heropass is Time.. ?? Yes. Gurdjieff never used the term entropy, but it fits the central core of his teaching. (And most physicists say entropy gives the arrow to time).
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 4, 2020 15:23:12 GMT -5
Even for Gurdjieff all that exists is One. I gave some quotes concerning this on the Macrocosm Microcosm thread. But only in the Absolute is this, without qualification. Our world is almost the ~bottom~ of manifestation. The very bottom is represented on earth by remorseless murderers and the types of people who prey on the innocent for their own benefit, for narcissistic wealth and power. Gurdjieff called this world 96, the moon. So no, world 12 is not an exception. There is still a kind of division between world 12 and the next world up, world 6. Picture a seven step ladder. Between step 3 and 4 there is a gap, a missing step. The gap is too wide to step from 3 to 4, this is called an interval, or stopender. And then between step seven and step one of the next level, step one of the new do, there is another interval. One crosses over to a different ladder. In a sense the person/individual has to build a step at these intervals. They have to supply the energy to cross the interval. So in all of the universe, all the worlds, there is this same structuring. Seven octaves. When the person/individual reaches a new level, there is unity/oneness, for him or her, there and below. But not upwards, not experientially. Between world 12 and world 6 this structure still exists, with intervals. Incidentally, these intervals exist in every aspect of life. Everything operates from the two fundamental laws of the universe, the law of three (forces) and the law of seven. Everything. Gurdjieff started teaching about 1912 in Russia. Going back to these earliest teachings it can be seen that the universe according to Gurdjieff is a quantum universe, the intervals correspond to discontinuity in QM. Likewise, the whole of Gurdjieff's teaching is about overcoming entropy, in oneself, the merciless heropass. Is there any channelled work from Gurdjieff from after 1949? No. Anybody who knows anything about Gurdjieff would never make such a claim. But Gurdjieff does mention mediums in Beelzebub's Tales. When Beelzebub was sentenced to live in our solar system he chose Mars to live on, but some of his tribe made earth their home. Some lived on Atlantis, and before it sank the tribe's Party-Pythoness (medium) prophesied concerning this and so they were able to escape beforehand. gurdjieff.org.gr/ae/terms/en50/0598.htm
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 15:33:19 GMT -5
Is there any channelled work from Gurdjieff from after 1949? No. Anybody who knows anything about Gurdjieff would never make such a claim. Ok. Another quick search found some dream appearances of him this century. I just wondered what he thought of his teachings now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 15:34:58 GMT -5
Just ran a quick search and it says that the Merciless Heropass is Time.. ?? Yes. Gurdjieff never used the term entropy, but it fits the central core of his teaching. (And most physicists say entropy gives the arrow to time). So to call the Merciless Heropass entropy, is more your own interpretation?
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