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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 11:28:58 GMT -5
I am having the certainty in this place and it's absolutely not what I assume as I am doing in many areas. Infinite unfolds in such a way that would exactly define what you feel. Maybe you can take a closer look at this? Things have happened to me, say within the last year, that would have made me raging angry, say ten years ago. Maybe gopal has changed, and not necessarily the events of life? Please refer here spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/269733
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 28, 2015 11:34:18 GMT -5
Again, wrong. We finally find a chink in gopal's armor. Infinite unfolds clearly according to your belief system, for an example, when you think you can do something to eradicate something from your experience, it would create the experience in such a way that it would push you to apply your technique, when you find the truth that none of the technique could succeed to eradicate, then infinite re-orchestrate the situation where you don't need to use your technique. No, no, no.......... self filters everything that comes to us, into us. It's not that the whole of "reality" changes for personal little gopal, it's that >what gopal is< has changed. It's a question of epistemology, not ontology. It's not that the Infinite unfolds clearly according to your belief system, it's that your belief system "colors" what you see. The Infinite has not altered, the filtering system has altered. Just sit with that a while. It's like as if you would tell someone, the sky is red, the sky is red! And they tell you, gopal, take off the red-shaded sunglasses.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 28, 2015 11:35:29 GMT -5
Maybe you can take a closer look at this? Things have happened to me, say within the last year, that would have made me raging angry, say ten years ago. Maybe gopal has changed, and not necessarily the events of life? Please refer here spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/269733I'll have a look. See post above.
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Post by laughter on Jun 28, 2015 11:50:18 GMT -5
A person who thinks themselves to be meditating can do it for one of any number of reasons. It seems common that people become interested as a means to de-stress. Other's might come to value the ability to perform in high-pressure situations where other people are making unreasonable demands. Meditation can have benefits to a person their entire lives without them realizing that it wasn't them that was doing it all along ... that there never was any effort involved after all. btw: writing code can be a really deep positive samadhi. oh yeah. But you said you would come to know you are not a person through meditation, isn't it? So it automatically assumes that whoever comes to meditate surely assumes themselves as persons. That's a sort of existential riddle that I've found best illustrated by this: Joshu asked Nansen, "What is the Way?" "Ordinary mind is the Way," Nansen replied. "Shall I try to seek after it?" Joshu asked. "If you try for it, you will become separated from it," responded Nansen. "How can I know the Way unless I try for it?" persisted Joshu. Nansen said, "The Way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing. Knowing is delusion; not knowing is confusion. When you have really reached the true Way beyond doubt, you will find it as vast and boundless as outer space. How can it be talked about on the level of right and wrong?" That's from here, but there are lots of different translations and looking at different ones can reveal various nuance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 11:53:21 GMT -5
Infinite unfolds clearly according to your belief system, for an example, when you think you can do something to eradicate something from your experience, it would create the experience in such a way that it would push you to apply your technique, when you find the truth that none of the technique could succeed to eradicate, then infinite re-orchestrate the situation where you don't need to use your technique. No, no, no.......... self filters everything that comes to us, into us. It's not that the whole of "reality" changes for personal little gopal, it's that >what gopal is< has changed. It's a question of epistemology, not ontology. It's not that the Infinite unfolds clearly according to your belief system, it's that your belief system "colors" what you see. The Infinite has not altered, the filtering system has altered. Just sit with that a while. It's like as if you would tell someone, the sky is red, the sky is red! And they tell you, gopal, take off the red-shaded sunglasses. Little Gopal,ok,fine, but this perception of little Gopal has been created by infinite, Not only one technique I used and stating the fact to you, there are many technique I invented, whenever I believe some technique would succeed to create what I intended there would be a new experience created by infinite and push me to use my technique, this has been case whenever I invented a technique, When I realize the truth no technique can be used to eradicate any of situation(nothing can be done), Infinite re-orchestrated in such a way that there is no need of using any technique.
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Post by quinn on Jun 28, 2015 11:57:30 GMT -5
Oh, I see! Thank you, that was very clear. So you already see the shenanigans of the mind! And you also see that you can't control the ups and downs by applying techniques. Yes - I've seen that too. I don't see ATA-T as a technique. I see it as exactly what happens when you see what you've seen (the mind's shenanigans, I can't control ups and downs). You give it a rest. You stop. You let all that go and just deal with life directly. When mind rises up and says "the peace of ATA-T attracts it's opposite", you pay it no mind (lol). Peace arises...ok. Irritation arises...ok. Let mind do its thing while I drive this car or feel the grass under my feet or whatever I'm attending to. Not a technique. A way of being after we see that all else fails. A way of being that we had forgotten, so maybe we have to practice it a bit to remember. What are you talking about here? When it creates the opposite, aren't you sure that it's not leading anywhere other than it's own creation? It would never lead you anywhere because it's has it's own creation to continue. Ok. No, I don't think ATA-T creates its opposite. No, I don't think it has it's own creation to continue. I think these are stories about what's happening, not what's happening.
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Post by laughter on Jun 28, 2015 12:05:05 GMT -5
Is there truly "resting" in the ATA-T you're talking about? Surrender might be another word. Is there a true surrendering of all ideas about the 'actual'? If so, then we're talking about the same thing. It seems like you're saying the practice of ATA-T creates the reappearance of ideas about the actual (the roller coaster). How do you conclude that? Ok let me explain my point clear here why I don't prefer to do ATA-T, If I do ATA-T(Looking into the outer world perception(no thought allowed)) then it creates the peace while I am doing this ATA-T, soon it would attract it's opposite irritation so it would strongly push us to give up the idea of ATA-T and once we give up, sooner or later again it starts to suggest us to do this ATA-T So this roller coaster never stops so it would re-create the roller coaster rather than creating the intended result, are you getting me now? And Now you need to tell me what kind of ATA-T doesn't create this roller coaster? It's possible to find your own practice, whatever that may be, one that will work for you. The elements are silence, inquiry and daily motion. For me personally, mine involved sport, the outdoors, and even art, primarily as an admirer. The bottom line is that, as you've agreed, the intellect alone isn't sufficient to provide the answers to whatever existential questions you might have remaining.
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Post by quinn on Jun 28, 2015 12:06:53 GMT -5
No, no, no.......... self filters everything that comes to us, into us. It's not that the whole of "reality" changes for personal little gopal, it's that >what gopal is< has changed. It's a question of epistemology, not ontology. It's not that the Infinite unfolds clearly according to your belief system, it's that your belief system "colors" what you see. The Infinite has not altered, the filtering system has altered. Just sit with that a while. It's like as if you would tell someone, the sky is red, the sky is red! And they tell you, gopal, take off the red-shaded sunglasses. Little Gopal,ok,fine, but this perception of little Gopal has been created by infinite, Not only one technique I used and stating the fact to you, there are many technique I invented, whenever I believe some technique would succeed to create what I intended there would be a new experience created by infinite and push me to use my technique, this has been case whenever I invented a technique, When I realize the truth no technique can be used to eradicate any of situation(nothing can be done), Infinite re-orchestrated in such a way that there is no need of using any technique. So are you saying that you're totally at peace and there is no trace of suffering?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 12:08:34 GMT -5
Little Gopal,ok,fine, but this perception of little Gopal has been created by infinite, Not only one technique I used and stating the fact to you, there are many technique I invented, whenever I believe some technique would succeed to create what I intended there would be a new experience created by infinite and push me to use my technique, this has been case whenever I invented a technique, When I realize the truth no technique can be used to eradicate any of situation(nothing can be done), Infinite re-orchestrated in such a way that there is no need of using any technique. So are you saying that you're totally at peace and there is no trace of suffering? No, I am not suffering, but happy/unhappy happens, unhappy is not suffering, because suffering includes the desire to come out of the situation.
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Post by laughter on Jun 28, 2015 12:09:48 GMT -5
The roller coaster is a product of self-referential thought. Who is riding the roller coaster? Penetrate the illusion of self-referentiality, and the roller coaster ceases to exist along with the imaginary rider. How could you say this is self-referential thought? I am not the one who is riding this roller coaster, roller coaster happens automatically, I am pretty sure I am not the one who is directing my life. This is a half truth, and the intellect is powerless to assemble the whole on it's own.
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Post by laughter on Jun 28, 2015 12:10:40 GMT -5
One other hint: "outer" and "inner" are also thoughts ABOUT what's going on. What happens when thoughts about outer and inner totally cease? What remains? I don't understand the motto behind this question, Can you please connect back to what I am asking ? What you really are, is without limit.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 12:10:43 GMT -5
Ok let me explain my point clear here why I don't prefer to do ATA-T, If I do ATA-T(Looking into the outer world perception(no thought allowed)) then it creates the peace while I am doing this ATA-T, soon it would attract it's opposite irritation so it would strongly push us to give up the idea of ATA-T and once we give up, sooner or later again it starts to suggest us to do this ATA-T So this roller coaster never stops so it would re-create the roller coaster rather than creating the intended result, are you getting me now? And Now you need to tell me what kind of ATA-T doesn't create this roller coaster? It's possible to find your own practice, whatever that may be, one that will work for you. The elements are silence, inquiry and daily motion. For me personally, mine involved sport, the outdoors, and even art, primarily as an admirer. The bottom line is that, as you've agreed, the intellect alone isn't sufficient to provide the answers to whatever existential questions you might have remaining. yes Intellect never gives the answer, because thinking about something is also a creation, at the same time any kind of practise you consider would ultimately fail. Believing any practise would eradicate anything would create the experience where you would need to apply your practise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 12:12:48 GMT -5
How could you say this is self-referential thought? I am not the one who is riding this roller coaster, roller coaster happens automatically, I am pretty sure I am not the one who is directing my life. This is a half truth, and the intellect is powerless to assemble the whole on it's own. Where did I say intellect is the creation, I am saying intellect is also one of the creation, searching would find the answer in such a ways searching would continue.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 12:17:31 GMT -5
One other hint: "outer" and "inner" are also thoughts ABOUT what's going on. What happens when thoughts about outer and inner totally cease? What remains? An experiencer experiencing clarity.. which is known by comparison to experiencers who are not experiencing clarity.. comparison huh? sounds fishy.....
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Post by quinn on Jun 28, 2015 12:21:11 GMT -5
So are you saying that you're totally at peace and there is no trace of suffering? No, I am not suffering, but happy/unhappy happens, unhappy is not suffering, because suffering includes the desire to come out of the situation. Cool. So when you say ATA-T creates its opposite (irritation), this is something you experience? Or rather is this something you're sure would happen because this is the way you see creation playing out?
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