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Post by andrew on Mar 18, 2015 16:59:33 GMT -5
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Post by andrew on Mar 18, 2015 18:45:44 GMT -5
Nice to talk to you too autumn I wouldn't claim to be a meditation expert by any means but my experience of meditating when there is pain in different forms is that the pain doesn't go away, but it is as if the pain completely ceases to be 'mine'. In fact the pain is experienced as if it exists in a body that is not mine. It's a very interesting thing. The pain is allowed to be here, and although there is still a felt sense of pain, it is somehow totally external to me so it doesn't bother me. It just becomes a very interesting thing. So my bit of advice would be to notice it in a very curious sense. Be with the pain, don't try and get away from it or focus on anything else, just notice that it's not yours. In a strange way the pain is external to you. It's part of the body, but not part of 'you'. Lots of good meditators here though, so hope you get some responses.
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Post by earnest on Mar 18, 2015 18:56:48 GMT -5
Hi Autumn,
I've got a painful (when it flares) autoimmune disease and have done a fair amount of meditating so am well familiar with what you're talking about.
I don't know much about your overall situation so in some ways its difficult to comment, but I can tell you about some things that I found out and you might be able to take something of value from that. Also, I'm happy to explore any of this if you like.
Overall I guess the big thing for me was the shift in the relationship to pain. I did what I could to manage the illness and pain and I was very active in that process. However, there was/is some residual stuff, and that's what I'm left to work with.
A good chunk of the "working with" was done through meditation, and for me, the main thing was around approaching rather than avoiding. I did that through being curious - where is the pain, what is the texture of the pain, what does the pain do, is it moving, is it still etc etc.
Being curious started to erode the resistance, and with the reduction in resistance, it all became less of a problem.
Also, I stopped trying to quieten my mind and stopped trying to quieten my body.
Maybe don't put so much emphasis on being focussed and avoiding being distracted by pain - all that does is dig the hole deeper.
A bit rambly, but like I said happy to explore with you.
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Post by earnest on Mar 18, 2015 19:05:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't claim to be a meditation expert by any means but my experience of meditating when there is pain in different forms is that the pain doesn't go away, but it is as if the pain completely ceases to be 'mine'. In fact the pain is experienced as if it exists in a body that is not mine. It's a very interesting thing. The pain is allowed to be here, and although there is still a felt sense of pain, it is somehow totally external to me so it doesn't bother me. It just becomes a very interesting thing. So my bit of advice would be to notice it in a very curious sense. Be with the pain, don't try and get away from it or focus on anything else, just notice that it's not yours. In a strange way the pain is external to you. It's part of the body, but not part of 'you'. Lots of good meditators here though, so hope you get some responses. [/quote] good stuff,. I would add that for me anyway, I'm not so keen on jumping to "it's not mine" or any other conclusion - curiosity will reveal it in time. For me, front-loading the investigation just adds clutter. Surprise bursts of insight and revelation are pretty cool
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Post by andrew on Mar 18, 2015 19:09:21 GMT -5
Nice to talk to you too autumn I wouldn't claim to be a meditation expert by any means but my experience of meditating when there is pain in different forms is that the pain doesn't go away, but it is as if the pain completely ceases to be 'mine'. In fact the pain is experienced as if it exists in a body that is not mine. It's a very interesting thing. The pain is allowed to be here, and although there is still a felt sense of pain, it is somehow totally external to me so it doesn't bother me. It just becomes a very interesting thing. So my bit of advice would be to notice it in a very curious sense. Be with the pain, don't try and get away from it or focus on anything else, just notice that it's not yours. In a strange way the pain is external to you. It's part of the body, but not part of 'you'. Lots of good meditators here though, so hope you get some responses. good stuff,. I would add that for me anyway, I'm not so keen on jumping to "it's not mine" or any other conclusion - curiosity will reveal it in time. For me, front-loading the investigation just adds clutter. Surprise bursts of insight and revelation are pretty cool yep good point
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Post by runstill on Mar 19, 2015 21:13:04 GMT -5
You might try cold gel packs, freeze the pain and reduce the inflammation , also one other therapy that works well based on my experience and a dozen or so other people I've gotten feed back on is get a tube of ben-gay or something similar mix into it two or three packs of powdered aspirin, 'BC' aspirin is a good powdered aspirin. Apply it right on the area with the pain and cover with towel.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 21:26:15 GMT -5
If you put the attention on breath and you feel pain, there will be a tendency to want to avoid the pain, so you will try and focus more on the breath to escape the pain. This will destroy the innocence of putting attention on breath and cause tension. You should shift the attention from breath to where the pain is if you start to feel overwhelmed by the feeling. Put the attention on the pain in the same innocent way you put attention on breath. If you then feel some relief from the pain, then shift attention back to breath effortlessly.
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Post by onehandclapping on Mar 20, 2015 7:28:10 GMT -5
Maybe stop doing breath awareness meditation?
Instead try going outside and walking or doing something that doesn't hurt your body as badly as sitting (I assume if you have to change postures all the time you are sitting).
You don't have to sit in lotus in silence to realize what you are.....nor to meditate. Everyday life can be a meditation if you approach it as such. Washing hands. Brushing teeth. Eating food. Driving to work. Walking. All great moments to meditate. :-)
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Post by zendancer on Mar 20, 2015 9:12:53 GMT -5
OHC: I was about to write the same thing, but you beat me to it. One of the best remedies for back pain is walking, and while walking, one can shift attention away from thoughts to what is seen or heard (ATA-T). This activity will have as much effect as conventional sitting meditation, and it won't be imagined as anything special. As you say, it can be done while washing the dishes, driving a car, or pursuing any other everyday activity.
Walking is very relaxing, and the movement causes the spine to loosen up and release muscle tension, so walking while ATA'ing would my main recommendation. I read somewhere that blood circulation around the vertebrae increases as the vertebrae slightly rotate while walking. It's certainly worth a try.
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Post by laughter on Mar 20, 2015 12:15:32 GMT -5
Walking for back pain is aces for sure but there can be a threshold if there's a disc problem where immobility is called for.
The Child pose is excellent for putting the spine into natural alignment using gravity.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 20, 2015 12:20:43 GMT -5
Walking for back pain is aces for sure but there can be a threshold if there's a disc problem where immobility is called for. The Child pose is excellent for putting the spine into natural alignment using gravity. I agree, and the same thing is probably true for a pinched nerve.
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Post by laughter on Mar 21, 2015 17:13:35 GMT -5
Yeah autumn that's the way it went down for me too with the Child pose. I was laid up because of a slipped disc and couldn't run so I figured I'd read a yoga book that was layin' around.
Stretching the hamstrings and calves before and after a run is good practice as well. Tension in any one place in the body ripples off out into other places, and the legs tighten up with the exertion.
The other poses that I use are mountain, tree, reverse prayer, the dogs and three that I forget the names of but that are essentially touching your toes while keeping your back straight. What I find is that I can actually feel my spine aligning to the rhythm of the breath. Every pose comes with tips for a method of breathing. For example, when reaching for the toes the stretch is extended on the exhale.
The fact that physicians write scripts for pain meds for these conditions without first suggesting the efficacy of self-physical therapy is a rather sad travesty.
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Post by lolly on Mar 22, 2015 7:58:44 GMT -5
The breath meditation brings about body awareness so there's a greater awareness of sensation in general, so unsurprisingly, greater awareness of pain, and what we deal with as meditators isn't so much the sensation itself, but the mental reactivity we have to the sensations... where the 'trick' is to remain still minded, or in other words, don't react, which is easier said than done.
The first is starting with a reasonably comfortable posture... which might entail back/neck support if necessary, so as to enable you to sit for a reasonable length of time, and it takes a bit of time, like a week or two or longer, to sort out the posture, so just keep rearranging cushions until you find a suitably comfortable arrangement. You sure don't want to exacerbate the condition, so have to be careful in regards to posture.
If breath meditation is your preference, don't stray from that and shift focus to the pain or anything else because doing so just means the mind is being compelled by sensations. We don't want to be compelled by reactivity to any sensation because that's the problem we're looking to resolve, so in the same way one doesn't follow thoughts, one also doesn't follow sensations.
In the formal meditations where I sit for a long time, there is a lot of discomfort and pain, and it takes a bit of practice to be silent and observant while enduring discomfort, but the practice is all about remaining still minded regardless of the sensory experience, which also requires some earnest determination along with patience and persistence, so there is only to practice and continue to practice.
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