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Post by laughter on Feb 24, 2015 15:03:44 GMT -5
Yes, good questions. I just posted above a link to an article showing that much of our 'will' is automated. I read that study as about habit, which is something I find compelling. Enigma thinks habit is just elaborate mind games, which could be true too -- there can be no goal pursuit outside of awareness, for example, just pretend play that that is going on. I think unconscious triggers are the how of 'spontaneous' self-referential thinking. Yes, that seems like a no brainer to me. Irony rooted in deliberate self-reference intentional.  |
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Post by laughter on Feb 24, 2015 15:11:00 GMT -5
Yep, the world is a lot more interesting and a lot less scary if we don't create the individual! Hi Portto, thanks for your reply. If you had a choice, would you rather always live in a lot more interesting, less scary world, IOW other than what you are? Or would you like to be what you are? Can you change what you are? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 15:27:49 GMT -5
Hi Portto, thanks for your reply. If you had a choice, would you rather always live in a lot more interesting, less scary world, IOW other than what you are? Or would you like to be what you are? Can you change what you are? No, I can't change not being here, but that doesn't mean my mind is here and not lost in an interesting world. |
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Post by laughter on Feb 24, 2015 15:46:59 GMT -5
Can you change what you are? No, I can't change not being here, but that doesn't mean my mind is here and not lost in an interesting world. What does change will change in part according to our interests and our preferences just aren't relevant to what doesn't.  It's one of those rare occurrences where commonsense and self-knowledge come together in a confluence free of contradiction. |
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Post by Portto on Feb 24, 2015 15:50:32 GMT -5
 Yes, that's what happens to individuals...
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Post by Portto on Feb 24, 2015 15:53:55 GMT -5
Yep, the world is a lot more interesting and a lot less scary if we don't create the individual! Hi Portto, thanks for your reply. If you had a choice, would you rather always live in a lot more interesting, less scary world, IOW other than what you are? Or would you like to be what you are? Now that's a proper head scratcher... I would rather find the truth about life, the universe, and everything! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 16:52:37 GMT -5
No, I can't change not being here, but that doesn't mean my mind is here and not lost in an interesting world. What does change will change in part according to our interests and our preferences just aren't relevant to what doesn't. It's one of those rare occurrences where commonsense and self-knowledge come together in a confluence free of contradiction. laughter, what I see is a correlation between being more interested in being here, abiding in what I am, and consequently less interest in a world which is not me. The question was "if" there was a choice between an interesting world free of an individual I and fear, or abidance in being here, with no interest in the world? IOW is being here more interesting than being in an interesting world without an individual I and fear? |
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Post by laughter on Feb 24, 2015 17:06:04 GMT -5
What does change will change in part according to our interests and our preferences just aren't relevant to what doesn't. It's one of those rare occurrences where commonsense and self-knowledge come together in a confluence free of contradiction. laughter, what I see is a correlation between being more interested in being here, abiding in what I am, and consequently less interest in a world which is not me. The question was "if" there was a choice between an interesting world free of an individual I and fear, or abidance in being here, with no interest in the world? IOW is being here more interesting than being in an interesting world without an individual I and fear? Being here isn't a matter or a question of interest. |
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Post by laughter on Feb 24, 2015 17:07:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 17:32:03 GMT -5
laughter, what I see is a correlation between being more interested in being here, abiding in what I am, and consequently less interest in a world which is not me. The question was "if" there was a choice between an interesting world free of an individual I and fear, or abidance in being here, with no interest in the world? IOW is being here more interesting than being in an interesting world without an individual I and fear? . laughter, no it isn't, and neither can I change being here, but don't you find the perfection of being here interesting? I do. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 17:49:31 GMT -5
No I'm not kidding. Also I edited but it zinged in after your reply. Methinks it wouldn't have affected your reply any differently, anyhoo. You are talking about behaviours, yes, and other things. I was just trying to see if you could take a moment to understand E's perspective. It doesn't seem like it. I don't know what you mean by "'Our' worlds are just chock-full of options, but force of some god-awful habits cause us to just use one that we tend to fall back on." Can you say it an another way and be very specific about what you are referring to -- I need all the help I can get. And thank you for your patience in this regard. Why would you say it doesn't seem like I'd take a moment to understand E's perspective? It seems rather simple and straight forward - everyday stuff. You're saying that you think I'm set in my ways (too), okay. It's hard not to notice that it seems like watching an eternal tennis match - the ball goes back and forth with nothing really changing - it's just a silly game both have chosen to play. If I didn't know better, it appears that in light of both parties going unconscious from time to time, the same game can go on even after they're dead and gone. craps |
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Post by laughter on Feb 24, 2015 18:12:33 GMT -5
Being here isn't a matter or a question of interest. laughter, no it isn't, and neither can I change being here, but don't you find the perfection of being here interesting? I do. Yes! |
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2015 18:40:46 GMT -5
LOL.. not very interesting, the experiments exclude input not measured or considered but which have equal validity as potential causes for the same results, i.e.: direct communication, enforcing the bias, at frequencies beyond the experiment's capacity or design.. Your go-to reasons for dismissing scientific experimentation are unconvincing. What do you mean by 'direct communication'? What 'frequencies' are you referring to? And there's no need to get all defensive just because Portto mused about the implications regarding free will. There actually was no mention of free will in the article. And remember, you are free to simultaneously find something interesting while also being skeptical of it, just FYI. Portto brought this up because of the still mind discussion, which is very interesting, IMO. How might a scientist define still mind, for example? What is measurable in that state? One could argue, for example, that free will is a process that is either conscious or unconscious. If abstract logical computation can happen unconsciously, why not decisions involving 'free will'? Yeah, I think that's the implication, though we could ask if an unconscious free will is really free. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2015 18:46:53 GMT -5
Okay that explains it. Just more myopic scientists. Appeals to commonsense and calls for a still mind in the context of a Newtonian world view stuck in the 19th century, beliefs about a 6th sense, CC awareness in deep dreamless sleep and a multi-frequency wireless internet of woodland faerie carrier pigeons are actually pretty d@mned funny. So was that! Though my understanding of the CC experience, (and my batting average hasn't been so good lately), is that he claims that he's lucid in the dream state, and from there can have a CC experience from within the dream, which is, at the very least, creative. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2015 18:54:11 GMT -5
Mucho interesting.  Here's another famous scientific article, cited by thousands other studies, and dealing with "automated will:" The Automated Will: Nonconscious Activation and Pursuit of Behavioral Goals www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3005626/It starts with a famous quote: Thanks. I'll check it out. |
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Yes, that's what happens to individuals...
