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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 3, 2017 10:16:00 GMT -5
"Your beliefs, then, are like hypnotic focuses. You reinforce them constantly through the normal inner talking in which you all indulge. This inner communication acts like the constant repetition of a hypnotist. In this case, however, you are your own hypnotist. Few people will have simply one main area of concentration. Usually several are involved, but these represent the ways in which you are using your energy."I think the greatest benefit of Seth material I am reading these days came from the above paragraph, for me. In last years many times I heard about the inner talk's reinforcing the sense of 'me' but it hadn't meant much to me. And now I am still not looking at the issue as a matter of "is there a separate self or not?".. I am just really astonished at the fact that what I almost constantly think throughout a day, days - months - years becomes my identity. (period) (note: this may have something to do with Gurdjieff's 'chief feature', too) A good quote. You are beginning ~to make~ a little what's called inner separation, ~something~ present that-is-not ego/personality/self. This is significant. Laughter is very accurate. Learning about chief feature comes later, much later. Chief feature is like the root of the small s self, every part of self is entangled in it, very difficult to see, it is like the Gordian knot.
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Post by laughter on Sept 3, 2017 17:21:13 GMT -5
"Your beliefs, then, are like hypnotic focuses. You reinforce them constantly through the normal inner talking in which you all indulge. This inner communication acts like the constant repetition of a hypnotist. In this case, however, you are your own hypnotist. Few people will have simply one main area of concentration. Usually several are involved, but these represent the ways in which you are using your energy."I think the greatest benefit of Seth material I am reading these days came from the above paragraph, for me. In last years many times I heard about the inner talk's reinforcing the sense of 'me' but it hadn't meant much to me. And now I am still not looking at the issue as a matter of "is there a separate self or not?".. I am just really astonished at the fact that what I almost constantly think throughout a day, days - months - years becomes my identity. (period) (note: this may have something to do with Gurdjieff's 'chief feature', too) A good quote. You are beginning ~to make~ a little what's called inner separation, ~something~ present that-is-not ego/personality/self. This is significant. Laughter is very accurate. Learning about chief feature comes later, much later. Chief feature is like the root of the small s self, every part of self is entangled in it, very difficult to see, it is like the Gordian knot. I've always had a great deal of respect for zindy's understandings and the quality of silence in the movements of her mind, and don't consider her to be any sort of beginner. Although Zen has an expression called "beginner's mind" that strikes me as a rather wry comment that isn't meant as a condescension .. unless someone wants to take it that way ...
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 4, 2017 12:34:32 GMT -5
A good quote. You are beginning ~to make~ a little what's called inner separation, ~something~ present that-is-not ego/personality/self. This is significant. Laughter is very accurate. Learning about chief feature comes later, much later. Chief feature is like the root of the small s self, every part of self is entangled in it, very difficult to see, it is like the Gordian knot. I've always had a great deal of respect for zindy's understandings and the quality of silence in the movements of her mind, and don't consider her to be any sort of beginner. Although Zen has an expression called "beginner's mind" that strikes me as a rather wry comment that isn't meant as a condescension .. unless someone wants to take it that way ... I concur.
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Post by zin on Sept 5, 2017 15:57:03 GMT -5
"Your beliefs, then, are like hypnotic focuses. You reinforce them constantly through the normal inner talking in which you all indulge. This inner communication acts like the constant repetition of a hypnotist. In this case, however, you are your own hypnotist. Few people will have simply one main area of concentration. Usually several are involved, but these represent the ways in which you are using your energy."I think the greatest benefit of Seth material I am reading these days came from the above paragraph, for me. In last years many times I heard about the inner talk's reinforcing the sense of 'me' but it hadn't meant much to me. And now I am still not looking at the issue as a matter of "is there a separate self or not?".. I am just really astonished at the fact that what I almost constantly think throughout a day, days - months - years becomes my identity. (period) (note: this may have something to do with Gurdjieff's 'chief feature', too) As long as you keep telling yourself that, yes. Fun question: How do you know if the talk leads to the sense of 'me', or the sense of 'me' leads to the talk? By observing, by a momentary stepping back both from the talk and the sense of self of the moment. However this can happen only for an instant I think... When I read that paragraph I had an out of the blue taste like I was looking at beads on a rosary, or a bunch of grapes; they were like representations of those 'hypnotic focuses'.. and I said "that's me!" I wouldn't call it an observation but it was a very valuable snapshot.
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Post by enigma on Sept 5, 2017 18:07:06 GMT -5
As long as you keep telling yourself that, yes. Fun question: How do you know if the talk leads to the sense of 'me', or the sense of 'me' leads to the talk? By observing, by a momentary stepping back both from the talk and the sense of self of the moment. However this can happen only for an instant I think... When I read that paragraph I had an out of the blue taste like I was looking at beads on a rosary, or a bunch of grapes; they were like representations of those 'hypnotic focuses'.. and I said "that's me!" I wouldn't call it an observation but it was a very valuable snapshot. No doubt that repeated focus (I am beautiful, I am insensitive) reinforces the identity in those terms, but the link between 'beauty' and 'me' would not occur but for the sense of being a person. Once established as a person, that identity needs to be protected and defended, and so the thoughts occur.
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Post by zin on Sept 6, 2017 19:11:48 GMT -5
By observing, by a momentary stepping back both from the talk and the sense of self of the moment. However this can happen only for an instant I think... When I read that paragraph I had an out of the blue taste like I was looking at beads on a rosary, or a bunch of grapes; they were like representations of those 'hypnotic focuses'.. and I said "that's me!" I wouldn't call it an observation but it was a very valuable snapshot. No doubt that repeated focus (I am beautiful, I am insensitive) reinforces the identity in those terms, but the link between 'beauty' and 'me' would not occur but for the sense of being a person. Once established as a person, that identity needs to be protected and defended, and so the thoughts occur. Ok but what is the sense of being a person? You don't mean Mooji's 'sense of existence', do you? It (Mooji's term) doesn't feel as a separate me to me. I implicitly talked about roles I have in life by saying "sense of self of the moment". I say the focus makes the self (of that role) stronger.. But sense of being a person? Like when you wake up in the morning some feeling comes over to you, like, "what am I going to do".. Is that it?
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Post by zin on Sept 6, 2017 20:34:19 GMT -5
"Your beliefs, then, are like hypnotic focuses. You reinforce them constantly through the normal inner talking in which you all indulge. This inner communication acts like the constant repetition of a hypnotist. In this case, however, you are your own hypnotist. Few people will have simply one main area of concentration. Usually several are involved, but these represent the ways in which you are using your energy."I think the greatest benefit of Seth material I am reading these days came from the above paragraph, for me. In last years many times I heard about the inner talk's reinforcing the sense of 'me' but it hadn't meant much to me. And now I am still not looking at the issue as a matter of "is there a separate self or not?".. I am just really astonished at the fact that what I almost constantly think throughout a day, days - months - years becomes my identity. (period) (note: this may have something to do with Gurdjieff's 'chief feature', too) Huh, hadn't read that quote before .. did I ever mention that Jane and I come from the same part of the world? What you're noticing in terms of the content of your mind and your relation to it is what is meant by "discerning the false as false". This is the crux of witnessing, and describes a process of becoming conscious. "Falsity" used in this way doesn't refer to some relative material truth, and if these thoughts are just allowed to come and go, in the witnessing, as they are, then the constant reformation of the sense of identity based in them can be disrupted. This disruption can happen both suddenly and with a major shift in perspective, as well as subtly, in quiet increments over time. There's a corresponding relation to the sense of reality, and how this seems for you in the specifics will be unique to you, although you might find some common ground with others who've written about similar changes. The quote is from the book the Nature of Personal Reality, session 659. And I am interested in Jane, too : ) I am interested in her experience with 'writing' in general, in her being a writer. Ok, after discerning the false as false do you get a sense of self again, a broader one, maybe? This may be a nonsense question.. but I quickly return to the usual, burdensome feelings.. so I want to hear about "in quiet increments over time".
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Post by zin on Sept 6, 2017 20:49:17 GMT -5
"Your beliefs, then, are like hypnotic focuses. You reinforce them constantly through the normal inner talking in which you all indulge. This inner communication acts like the constant repetition of a hypnotist. In this case, however, you are your own hypnotist. Few people will have simply one main area of concentration. Usually several are involved, but these represent the ways in which you are using your energy."I think the greatest benefit of Seth material I am reading these days came from the above paragraph, for me. In last years many times I heard about the inner talk's reinforcing the sense of 'me' but it hadn't meant much to me. And now I am still not looking at the issue as a matter of "is there a separate self or not?".. I am just really astonished at the fact that what I almost constantly think throughout a day, days - months - years becomes my identity. (period) (note: this may have something to do with Gurdjieff's 'chief feature', too) A good quote. You are beginning ~to make~ a little what's called inner separation, ~something~ present that-is-not ego/personality/self. This is significant. Laughter is very accurate. Learning about chief feature comes later, much later. Chief feature is like the root of the small s self, every part of self is entangled in it, very difficult to see, it is like the Gordian knot. I have a feeling that chief feature has something to do with those focuses but I can't put my finger on it. I several times read that it is generally something like fear, vanity -- it sounded like some negative trait. Now I have a different feeling. Anyway.. yes I understand that more important thing is separation. Still putting a chief feature quote I had posted some time ago.. (...) "Everyone is born with ... (what can I call it?) some special twist (...) There is a term "chief feature" in Gurdjieff's teaching which is like what is described above. I will put a quote I had read at a related website (of William Page): "(...) in broad outline, this feature determines how we view what is more and less important, what is to be admired in life, how we view those supposedly weaker or stronger than ourselves, how we react in different situations, whether we seek or avoid confrontation or the limelight, what triggers our favorite negative emotions, and on and on. It is our emotional attitude to ourselves, the fundamental way we feel about ourselves and life. And we don’t see it because we are immersed in it. (...) What’s incredible is that in spite of its usurpation of our lives and functions, of our feeling of ourselves, chief feature is precisely what we are not. (...) As understanding deepens, we gradually see that chief feature permeates our centers like a dye. This is not some minor quirk or bad habit that we can just decide to change and, hey presto, it’s gone. The whole mould of our thinking, the tenor of our emotional reactions, the style and postures of our movements, how we enter or leave a room, interact with others and conduct relationships—every nook and cranny of the manifestations of our functions is colored by our chief feature. This is the main actor running our lives." ......
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Post by laughter on Sept 7, 2017 3:44:17 GMT -5
Huh, hadn't read that quote before .. did I ever mention that Jane and I come from the same part of the world? What you're noticing in terms of the content of your mind and your relation to it is what is meant by "discerning the false as false". This is the crux of witnessing, and describes a process of becoming conscious. "Falsity" used in this way doesn't refer to some relative material truth, and if these thoughts are just allowed to come and go, in the witnessing, as they are, then the constant reformation of the sense of identity based in them can be disrupted. This disruption can happen both suddenly and with a major shift in perspective, as well as subtly, in quiet increments over time. There's a corresponding relation to the sense of reality, and how this seems for you in the specifics will be unique to you, although you might find some common ground with others who've written about similar changes. The quote is from the book the Nature of Personal Reality, session 659. And I am interested in Jane, too : ) I am interested in her experience with 'writing' in general, in her being a writer. Ok, after discerning the false as false do you get a sense of self again, a broader one, maybe? This may be a nonsense question.. but I quickly return to the usual, burdensome feelings.. so I want to hear about "in quiet increments over time". No, not a nonsense question at all. For many of us our sense of identity isn't static throughout our lives and instead changes over time. Reefs' coined a funny phrase for some of the more extreme versions of this: "identity poker". A common theme among the people who write about how nonduality or other spiritual cultures have influenced this process is how they have certain realizations along the way. Their sense of identity and their experience of the world is one way prior to these milestones and quite different afterward. This is something I can definitely relate to myself. Once awake to the dream, every instant becomes an opportunity to notice how our minds are the source of our sense of continuity in the world, and how this sense is related to those burdensome thoughts. In the meantime, life, goes on.
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Post by zin on Sept 14, 2017 20:07:22 GMT -5
The quote is from the book the Nature of Personal Reality, session 659. And I am interested in Jane, too : ) I am interested in her experience with 'writing' in general, in her being a writer. Ok, after discerning the false as false do you get a sense of self again, a broader one, maybe? This may be a nonsense question.. but I quickly return to the usual, burdensome feelings.. so I want to hear about "in quiet increments over time". No, not a nonsense question at all. For many of us our sense of identity isn't static throughout our lives and instead changes over time. Reefs' coined a funny phrase for some of the more extreme versions of this: "identity poker". A common theme among the people who write about how nonduality or other spiritual cultures have influenced this process is how they have certain realizations along the way. Their sense of identity and their experience of the world is one way prior to these milestones and quite different afterward. This is something I can definitely relate to myself. Once awake to the dream, every instant becomes an opportunity to notice how our minds are the source of our sense of continuity in the world, and how this sense is related to those burdensome thoughts. In the meantime, life, goes on. One thing about Seth material is maybe some kind of 'identity poker' effect on me, it is that I do like to read the 'person' in broader definitions as I read further. Like Jane, Seth, Seth 2, each encompasses more than the previous one (still not sure which is called what - personality, entity, soul?.. but that's not important now). Elsewhere I wrote that I am a seeker, and if I am asked what am I seeking I always say "something/someone similar to me!" Dunno how, this expansion effect helps in that area : ) . Another thing: Probably for the first time in a night dream I swam in the sea without seeing the land (but it appeared later). You wrote "then the constant reformation of the sense of identity based in them can be disrupted. This disruption can happen both suddenly and with a major shift in perspective, as well as subtly, in quiet increments over time." Some changes happen and who knows, maybe it will cause some disruption, too.. (sorry if I turned here into a thoughts journal!) ps. I like the poem!
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Post by laughter on Sept 15, 2017 1:51:47 GMT -5
No, not a nonsense question at all. For many of us our sense of identity isn't static throughout our lives and instead changes over time. Reefs' coined a funny phrase for some of the more extreme versions of this: "identity poker". A common theme among the people who write about how nonduality or other spiritual cultures have influenced this process is how they have certain realizations along the way. Their sense of identity and their experience of the world is one way prior to these milestones and quite different afterward. This is something I can definitely relate to myself. Once awake to the dream, every instant becomes an opportunity to notice how our minds are the source of our sense of continuity in the world, and how this sense is related to those burdensome thoughts. In the meantime, life, goes on. One thing about Seth material is maybe some kind of 'identity poker' effect on me, it is that I do like to read the 'person' in broader definitions as I read further. Like Jane, Seth, Seth 2, each encompasses more than the previous one (still not sure which is called what - personality, entity, soul?.. but that's not important now). Elsewhere I wrote that I am a seeker, and if I am asked what am I seeking I always say "something/someone similar to me!" Dunno how, this expansion effect helps in that area : ) . Another thing: Probably for the first time in a night dream I swam in the sea without seeing the land (but it appeared later). You wrote "then the constant reformation of the sense of identity based in them can be disrupted. This disruption can happen both suddenly and with a major shift in perspective, as well as subtly, in quiet increments over time." Some changes happen and who knows, maybe it will cause some disruption, too.. (sorry if I turned here into a thoughts journal!) ps. I like the poem! Oh please, no need for you to apologize. Thanks for sharing and thanks for the kind words about the poem. It's an oldie but I find that it often just fits right in to a dialog at certain times.
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Post by laughter on Oct 28, 2017 5:37:43 GMT -5
Only the infinite, is.
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Post by krsnaraja on Oct 28, 2017 7:24:38 GMT -5
There's a KTV bar in our place. The name is INFINITY. When you go inside, there are pretty, sexy, young women eager to entertain you at the tables. These are GROs ( Guest Relations Officer ). To clients who patronize them over ice cold beer bottles and ladies drinks is what infiNITE, is. 😁
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Post by laughter on Dec 8, 2017 18:19:12 GMT -5
"It Happened To Me: I Started Referring To Myself In Third Person And Now I Am Enlightened" -- NYT Opinion Nice find! That's about as mainstream as that particular path to 2nd mountain is ever gonna' get .. although the intellegencia aren't all that popular these days, so mainstream doesn't translate into popularity. Nothing new in that. Now I'm motivated to track down where Benny's opinion might be a source of discussion. "That's a narrow view of Buddhism." "Can suffering ever really end while you're alive?" "talking to yourself just means you should go get help" .. heh heh I gotta' a million of 'em heh heh ..
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Post by runstill on Dec 8, 2017 23:26:10 GMT -5
No, not a nonsense question at all. For many of us our sense of identity isn't static throughout our lives and instead changes over time. Reefs' coined a funny phrase for some of the more extreme versions of this: "identity poker". A common theme among the people who write about how nonduality or other spiritual cultures have influenced this process is how they have certain realizations along the way. Their sense of identity and their experience of the world is one way prior to these milestones and quite different afterward. This is something I can definitely relate to myself. Once awake to the dream, every instant becomes an opportunity to notice how our minds are the source of our sense of continuity in the world, and how this sense is related to those burdensome thoughts. In the meantime, life, goes on. One thing about Seth material is maybe some kind of 'identity poker' effect on me, it is that I do like to read the 'person' in broader definitions as I read further. Like Jane, Seth, Seth 2, each encompasses more than the previous one (still not sure which is called what - personality, entity, soul?.. but that's not important now). Elsewhere I wrote that I am a seeker, and if I am asked what am I seeking I always say "something/someone similar to me!" Dunno how, this expansion effect helps in that area : ) . Another thing: Probably for the first time in a night dream I swam in the sea without seeing the land (but it appeared later). You wrote "then the constant reformation of the sense of identity based in them can be disrupted. This disruption can happen both suddenly and with a major shift in perspective, as well as subtly, in quiet increments over time." Some changes happen and who knows, maybe it will cause some disruption, too.. (sorry if I turned here into a thoughts journal!) ps. I like the poem! [/font][/quote] That's a profound insight, true nature is non-separation even though the senses appear to indicate separation. There's a leap of perception that's available to all of us where it is directly known/seen that our true nature is 'awaring awareness' and not what happens to be appearing. The you that is seeking is only an appearance.
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