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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 29, 2020 11:26:07 GMT -5
In my experience, the key is attention, and some of this advice is likely going to sound really simple ... it's 'cause it's all no-brainer.  Attention sometimes seems to direct outward to the physical world that appears to you as external to your body. If you're fortunate enough to be doing something physically active, then notice and let fall away any thoughts, and just attend to that activity fully. Keep a reminder in the back of your mind when you notice a thought that isn't related to the activity "oh, ok, that's not what I'm doing right now...". This is how I'd describe what ZD used to advise as "Attend the Actual" .... but notice that any thought about what "actual" means or who or what is attending is completely counter to the prescription. Another word that describes this, roughly speaking, is mindfulness. You can also do this when you're not active, if you're at rest, you can attend your physical surroundings to the exclusion of any thoughts that will come up, and really, any focal point of attention works, but in instances like that I prefer to be outdoors. This, very generally, is the basis for what's referred to as tantra. Sports like skiing, swimming, biking, skating, walking/hiking or running all afford the opportunity to combine these first two practices. When speaking with someone, anyone, in any situation, you can notice when you're distracted, when your mind is only partly on the interaction with that person. When that happens, it's an opportunity to focus attention more fully on the person you're interacting with. Sex is the obvious way to combine these first three practices. Then there's the other direction that attention can seem to land, and that's on our internal state. My experience with this is that thoughts used to manifest as an internal verbal dialog. Is that the way it is for you? For instance, does it seem as though a thought will free-associate with your current situation and mood with an old memory or as a sort of reminder of some goal you have? Do you find opinions of people and situations sort of spontaneously manifesting in response to what's going on around you in the form of that sort of narrative? Regardless of how that goes for you, it's possible for anyone at any time to simply ask "how do I feel?". Conditions constantly change around us and this results in sensations and thoughts and interactions that all combine in the aggregate to effect our mood. Internal resistance manifests in lots of little ways like a scowl, muscular tension and higher blood pressure, and negative reactions are great opportunities to notice: "what pattern or thought and emotion led to that reaction? what did I find important enough in what presented to cause that reaction?".
I've found a sitting meditation practice to be helpful with interior attention, and there are lots of different techniques. If you're interested I'll detail what I do. The interior practice is a direct process of becoming conscious of our thoughts and feelings, and any concepts we have of ourselves or the world are bound to surface. As they do, it's important to be gentle with yourself, to not judge yourself, but just to see the conditioned patterns for what they are as they become clear.
In my experience, the two types of practice -- interior and exterior attention -- are complimentary, and the noticing that happens is the same in either instance, and the result of that noticing can be succinctly described as a moment of clarity. In those moments is the absence of obfuscation of all the knowledge you could ever imagine, want or need with regard to spirituality. Really quite interesting and true. Have your views on these sorts of practice changed any since 2015? To laughter also: This and this can be done simultaneously. Aside, that is actually what generates Chi. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 29, 2020 13:56:01 GMT -5
No, not at all. If someone were to ask me the question "how should I go about pursing the existential truth?", I'd answer with something quite similar.  Do you still do these practices? Regularly, as on a schedule? Or just when you feel like it or not at all? When I walk alone a version of it (absent inquiry) happens naturally, while the sitting meditation doesn't happen all that often these days - unless the silent time in church can count. Time by the edge of the lake in the summer is always like a sort of gentle and glorious, expansive and blissful dream. And any time and place I want, I can simply stop, take a breath, and marvel, regardless of whatever else is happening. At about the time I joined this forum was the most intense period of it what I've described. I was walking around in a sort of giddy state of alert emptiness and intense existential curiosity, best described by this, motivated by Albert Low's: "arouse the mind, without allowing it to rest anywhere". At some point it dawned on me that I genuinely didn't have any more spiritual questions, and that got brought home by reading "I AM THAT" and reading along here. A few times after that I made a conscious effort to rekindle active self-inquiry just to see what would happen - because, you know, it was so memorable, and transformative in the positive, I sort of get nostalgic for that state. But, there's no going back to it. The sitting practice actually intensified for a few years after, essentially out of curiosity, but the frequency of that trailed off a few years ago. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 29, 2020 14:00:35 GMT -5
Really quite interesting and true. Have your views on these sorts of practice changed any since 2015? To laughter also: This and this can be done simultaneously. Aside, that is actually what generates Chi. There isn't really any inside, nor outside. Those ideas are just a convenience for anyone interested in these descriptions of the meditation. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 15:33:45 GMT -5
Do you still do these practices? Regularly, as on a schedule? Or just when you feel like it or not at all? When I walk alone a version of it (absent inquiry) happens naturally, while the sitting meditation doesn't happen all that often these days - unless the silent time in church can count. Time by the edge of the lake in the summer is always like a sort of gentle and glorious, expansive and blissful dream. And any time and place I want, I can simply stop, take a breath, and marvel, regardless of whatever else is happening. At about the time I joined this forum was the most intense period of it what I've described. I was walking around in a sort of giddy state of alert emptiness and intense existential curiosity, best described by this, motivated by Albert Low's: "arouse the mind, without allowing it to rest anywhere". At some point it dawned on me that I genuinely didn't have any more spiritual questions, and that got brought home by reading "I AM THAT" and reading along here. A few times after that I made a conscious effort to rekindle active self-inquiry just to see what would happen - because, you know, it was so memorable, and transformative in the positive, I sort of get nostalgic for that state. But, there's no going back to it. The sitting practice actually intensified for a few years after, essentially out of curiosity, but the frequency of that trailed off a few years ago. I don't have to remind you not to underestimate The Lake's role, in those glorious expansions. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 9:30:08 GMT -5
Do you still do these practices? Regularly, as on a schedule? Or just when you feel like it or not at all? When I walk alone a version of it (absent inquiry) happens naturally, while the sitting meditation doesn't happen all that often these days - unless the silent time in church can count. Time by the edge of the lake in the summer is always like a sort of gentle and glorious, expansive and blissful dream. And any time and place I want, I can simply stop, take a breath, and marvel, regardless of whatever else is happening. At about the time I joined this forum was the most intense period of it what I've described. I was walking around in a sort of giddy state of alert emptiness and intense existential curiosity, best described by this, motivated by Albert Low's: "arouse the mind, without allowing it to rest anywhere". At some point it dawned on me that I genuinely didn't have any more spiritual questions, and that got brought home by reading "I AM THAT" and reading along here. A few times after that I made a conscious effort to rekindle active self-inquiry just to see what would happen - because, you know, it was so memorable, and transformative in the positive, I sort of get nostalgic for that state. But, there's no going back to it. The sitting practice actually intensified for a few years after, essentially out of curiosity, but the frequency of that trailed off a few years ago. It reminds me of diving with just a mask, where you're in an alien yet fascinating world struggling, but when needed you can return to the surface and catch a breath. Somehow I want to be able to breathe underwater. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 14:55:18 GMT -5
When I walk alone a version of it (absent inquiry) happens naturally, while the sitting meditation doesn't happen all that often these days - unless the silent time in church can count. Time by the edge of the lake in the summer is always like a sort of gentle and glorious, expansive and blissful dream. And any time and place I want, I can simply stop, take a breath, and marvel, regardless of whatever else is happening. At about the time I joined this forum was the most intense period of it what I've described. I was walking around in a sort of giddy state of alert emptiness and intense existential curiosity, best described by this, motivated by Albert Low's: "arouse the mind, without allowing it to rest anywhere". At some point it dawned on me that I genuinely didn't have any more spiritual questions, and that got brought home by reading "I AM THAT" and reading along here. A few times after that I made a conscious effort to rekindle active self-inquiry just to see what would happen - because, you know, it was so memorable, and transformative in the positive, I sort of get nostalgic for that state. But, there's no going back to it. The sitting practice actually intensified for a few years after, essentially out of curiosity, but the frequency of that trailed off a few years ago. It reminds me of diving with just a mask, where you're in an alien yet fascinating world struggling, but when needed you can return to the surface and catch a breath. Somehow I want to be able to breathe underwater.If you are already able to breathe fully on land, then all that is preventing your want is the want. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 30, 2020 18:58:42 GMT -5
When I walk alone a version of it (absent inquiry) happens naturally, while the sitting meditation doesn't happen all that often these days - unless the silent time in church can count. Time by the edge of the lake in the summer is always like a sort of gentle and glorious, expansive and blissful dream. And any time and place I want, I can simply stop, take a breath, and marvel, regardless of whatever else is happening. At about the time I joined this forum was the most intense period of it what I've described. I was walking around in a sort of giddy state of alert emptiness and intense existential curiosity, best described by this, motivated by Albert Low's: "arouse the mind, without allowing it to rest anywhere". At some point it dawned on me that I genuinely didn't have any more spiritual questions, and that got brought home by reading "I AM THAT" and reading along here. A few times after that I made a conscious effort to rekindle active self-inquiry just to see what would happen - because, you know, it was so memorable, and transformative in the positive, I sort of get nostalgic for that state. But, there's no going back to it. The sitting practice actually intensified for a few years after, essentially out of curiosity, but the frequency of that trailed off a few years ago. I don't have to remind you not to underestimate The Lake's role, in those glorious expansions. No, you don't! |
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Post by laughter on Jan 30, 2020 19:03:24 GMT -5
When I walk alone a version of it (absent inquiry) happens naturally, while the sitting meditation doesn't happen all that often these days - unless the silent time in church can count. Time by the edge of the lake in the summer is always like a sort of gentle and glorious, expansive and blissful dream. And any time and place I want, I can simply stop, take a breath, and marvel, regardless of whatever else is happening. At about the time I joined this forum was the most intense period of it what I've described. I was walking around in a sort of giddy state of alert emptiness and intense existential curiosity, best described by this, motivated by Albert Low's: "arouse the mind, without allowing it to rest anywhere". At some point it dawned on me that I genuinely didn't have any more spiritual questions, and that got brought home by reading "I AM THAT" and reading along here. A few times after that I made a conscious effort to rekindle active self-inquiry just to see what would happen - because, you know, it was so memorable, and transformative in the positive, I sort of get nostalgic for that state. But, there's no going back to it. The sitting practice actually intensified for a few years after, essentially out of curiosity, but the frequency of that trailed off a few years ago. It reminds me of diving with just a mask, where you're in an alien yet fascinating world struggling, but when needed you can return to the surface and catch a breath. Somehow I want to be able to breathe underwater. Well, that would make you an amphibian.  .. hmmmm ... like .. a frog.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 30, 2020 20:33:44 GMT -5
It reminds me of diving with just a mask, where you're in an alien yet fascinating world struggling, but when needed you can return to the surface and catch a breath. Somehow I want to be able to breathe underwater.If you are already able to breathe fully on land, then all that is preventing your want is the want. You're going to have to explain that one. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 22:21:19 GMT -5
It reminds me of diving with just a mask, where you're in an alien yet fascinating world struggling, but when needed you can return to the surface and catch a breath. Somehow I want to be able to breathe underwater. Well, that would make you an amphibian. .. hmmmm ... like .. a frog. Not a frog. A turtle or a gator maybe. Frog's are evil. That Adam and Eve story--they got it wrong. It wasn't a snake. It was a frog. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 3:14:10 GMT -5
If you are already able to breathe fully on land, then all that is preventing your want is the want. You're going to have to explain that one. Do you breathe properly? I always found it interesting when ZenDancer says that if there are any reports of CC's within the Zen Community, then they are just told to go and practice breathing techniques. There is some rich sense in this. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 31, 2020 8:35:01 GMT -5
You're going to have to explain that one. Do you breathe properly? I always found it interesting when ZenDancer says that if there are any reports of CC's within the Zen Community, then they are just told to go and practice breathing techniques. There is some rich sense in this. It sounded like you thought it is possible to breathe underwater. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 12:09:54 GMT -5
You're going to have to explain that one. Do you breathe properly? I always found it interesting when ZenDancer says that if there are any reports of CC's within the Zen Community, then they are just told to go and practice breathing techniques. There is some rich sense in this. I believe it might have been me. A Soto priest once told me to ignore mind blowers. They were distractions. Soto believes enlightenment is a gradual divestment of the trappings of separation. In Soto it seemed living, action, was more important than what came out of the mouth. Rinzai might be similar, but I don't know. All I know is they are peculiar. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 13:14:08 GMT -5
Do you breathe properly? I always found it interesting when ZenDancer says that if there are any reports of CC's within the Zen Community, then they are just told to go and practice breathing techniques. There is some rich sense in this. It sounded like you thought it is possible to breathe underwater. If you don't know what it's like to be inside the water of your own being, then there's no point saying much more. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 13:17:25 GMT -5
Do you breathe properly? I always found it interesting when ZenDancer says that if there are any reports of CC's within the Zen Community, then they are just told to go and practice breathing techniques. There is some rich sense in this. I believe it might have been me. A Soto priest once told me to ignore mind blowers. They were distractions. Soto believes enlightenment is a gradual divestment of the trappings of separation. In Soto it seemed living, action, was more important than what came out of the mouth. Rinzai might be similar, but I don't know. All I know is they are peculiar. |
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