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Post by silver on Mar 9, 2015 23:01:56 GMT -5
Umn...that link was about the fig. What does that have to do with anything?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 0:15:48 GMT -5
We can't. Do you really think that our consciousness looses the perception completely and Can it again start with the new perception? Why not? Seems to me that's what happens after a good night's sleep, so why isn't it possible for everybody all at once? So yesterday you were andrew and today you are enigma, yesterday you were in moon, today you are in earth? by the way are you now in earth?I don't know , you might be roaming around in Mars, who knows? You yourself do not know , Tomorrow you would be in somewhere else,Isn't it? If you say universe is in self delusion in the form of human, why not the same is happening in animals? how it perfectly manifest animals and acts perfectly? why human are given thinking ability? why not animals? Look at the animals it always in peace, it doesn't know what's happiness or unhappiness. If that was the greater state, then why human needs thinking and self-deluded, and then need to remove all these and coming back to this blissful state? Just take one step back from your own ideas and contemplate for a movement.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 1:41:35 GMT -5
Why not? Seems to me that's what happens after a good night's sleep, so why isn't it possible for everybody all at once? So yesterday you were andrew and today you are enigma, yesterday you were in moon, today you are in earth? by the way are you now in earth?I don't know , you might be roaming around in Mars, who knows? You yourself do not know , Tomorrow you would be in somewhere else,Isn't it? If you say universe is in self delusion in the form of human, why not the same is happening in animals? how it perfectly manifest animals and acts perfectly? why human are given thinking ability? why not animals? Look at the animals it always in peace, it doesn't know what's happiness or unhappiness. If that was the greater state, then why human needs thinking and self-deluded, and then need to remove all these and coming back to this blissful state? Just take one step back from your own ideas and contemplate for a movement. Animals at peace? You wouldn't think that if you had to get out of bed in the middle of the night as I did last night to break up a fight between one of my cats and a neighbors cat.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 1:59:49 GMT -5
So yesterday you were andrew and today you are enigma, yesterday you were in moon, today you are in earth? by the way are you now in earth?I don't know , you might be roaming around in Mars, who knows? You yourself do not know , Tomorrow you would be in somewhere else,Isn't it? If you say universe is in self delusion in the form of human, why not the same is happening in animals? how it perfectly manifest animals and acts perfectly? why human are given thinking ability? why not animals? Look at the animals it always in peace, it doesn't know what's happiness or unhappiness. If that was the greater state, then why human needs thinking and self-deluded, and then need to remove all these and coming back to this blissful state? Just take one step back from your own ideas and contemplate for a movement. Animals at peace? You wouldn't think that if you had to get out of bed in the middle of the night as I did last night to break up a fight between one of my cats and a neighbors cat. Animals do not suffer, suffering happens only in thoughts, that's what I meant.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 2:06:09 GMT -5
Animals at peace? You wouldn't think that if you had to get out of bed in the middle of the night as I did last night to break up a fight between one of my cats and a neighbors cat. Animals do not suffer, suffering happens only in thoughts, that's what I meant. I cannot presume to know what animals are thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 3:20:57 GMT -5
Well part of the contradicto-frog dealio is that genuine surprise and curiosity. Your thinking is very very unconventional and when one uses logic to follow it based on mental maps that's where they wind up: at a contradiction. For example, the last topic along these lines that we dialoged about where I perceived this type of contradiction was your idea that "the unconditioned never becomes conditioned". What turned the conversation for me back then was you mentioning the idea that "yeah, to mind it seems that way". You see, I didn't have to buy everything you were writing, just suspend my disbelief and disagreement long enough to see what you meant to understand the apparent contradiction. The last time you wrote that to me (" ..seems that way..") wasn't too long ago and it was on the idea that physicality appears within consciousness -- which still is an idea that I'll throw down on. What happens is your penchant for sounding self-confident tends to inflame any identification with the ideas that you disparage, and then the bull sees red ... or is it green? I would not bet on, "the unconditioned never becomes conditioned". Now, if a realization makes the unreal-self poof and just go away, I can't argue with that. But I don't see anybody living that out or even saying that. A mind/body keeps doing stuff that it used to do. That's like a "born again Christian" getting their ticket to heaven and then remaining in their old life, I just don't buy that. But if that floats your boat, go for it. At minimum, whatever we are, we get lost in Maya, we get lost in a maze, a labyrinth. I'm not going to depend upon a realization which informs the mind (what if something 'gets lost' in translation), I'll go for insight, experience and understanding, to get free.......... It's impossible to show someone that wants the freedom to have a new life, that the life that they are living is their new life, if they can't see it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 3:30:46 GMT -5
Animals do not suffer, suffering happens only in thoughts, that's what I meant. I cannot presume to know what animals are thinking. Agreed. Actually we both have been arguing whether there is a separate entity orchestrate everything here or not,he say no, I say yes. Result of that we entered here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 4:02:36 GMT -5
What seems most common to me is the perception that I'm contradicting myself, or covering my butt, because their image of what I say doesn't match what I'm saying. I have no idea what the image is until they tell me, or somebody else, and by then the paint is dry and it's in the frame, and nothing much can be done. Fresh Paint: You don't know that you don't know.. you are absolutely sure that you do know, and only what you think you know is vaild, and.. when people point that out to you, you go to war.. that's the general gist of it. you never come empty to a discussion, never without an agenda, and absent any sincerity for clarity.. Each new version of the 'Poor Phil, the Enigmatic Phrogg Show' gets a new coat of paint..
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 10, 2015 5:15:06 GMT -5
I would not bet on, "the unconditioned never becomes conditioned". Now, if a realization makes the unreal-self poof and just go away, I can't argue with that. But I don't see anybody living that out or even saying that. A mind/body keeps doing stuff that it used to do. That's like a "born again Christian" getting their ticket to heaven and then remaining in their old life, I just don't buy that. But if that floats your boat, go for it. At minimum, whatever we are, we get lost in Maya, we get lost in a maze, a labyrinth. I'm not going to depend upon a realization which informs the mind (what if something 'gets lost' in translation), I'll go for insight, experience and understanding, to get free.......... It's impossible to show someone that wants the freedom to have a new life, that the life that they are living is their new life, if they can't see it. Nicely articulated!
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Post by laughter on Mar 10, 2015 14:46:26 GMT -5
Umn...that link was about the fig. What does that have to do with anything? See now that strikes me as a deliberate out and out lie, 'cause not even you could be that confused.
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Post by silver on Mar 10, 2015 14:54:43 GMT -5
Umn...that link was about the fig. What does that have to do with anything? See now that strikes me as a deliberate out and out lie, 'cause not even you could be that confused. You n the frog seem to have a penchant for calling peeps liars...IF you would say whatever it is you have to say straight out, it would give those accused something to work with, but that would be just too inconvenient for you and your lies, like whatev. I won't play any more guessing games with you.
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Post by laughter on Mar 10, 2015 16:21:38 GMT -5
See now that strikes me as a deliberate out and out lie, 'cause not even you could be that confused. You n the frog seem to have a penchant for calling peeps liars...IF you would say whatever it is you have to say straight out, it would give those accused something to work with, but that would be just too inconvenient for you and your lies, like whatev. I won't play any more guessing games with you. This had nothing to do with the fig (as you claim here). Neither did this (in case you want to claim ambiguity). This was very obviously an "invite" to E': I'd love nothing more for than you to boil it all down, once n for all and make a definitive (relatively speaking) statement about all your goings on over the decades Not even you can be that confused about these posts. I'm not buyin' it hun'. Being kind to you with the truth might be cruel sometimes, and that's just the way the ball bounces.
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Post by silver on Mar 10, 2015 16:23:34 GMT -5
You n the frog seem to have a penchant for calling peeps liars...IF you would say whatever it is you have to say straight out, it would give those accused something to work with, but that would be just too inconvenient for you and your lies, like whatev. I won't play any more guessing games with you. This had nothing to do with the fig (as you claim here). Neither did this (in case you want to claim ambiguity). This was very obviously an "invite" to E': I'd love nothing more for than you to boil it all down, once n for all and make a definitive (relatively speaking) statement about all your goings on over the decades Not even you can be that confused about these posts. I'm not buyin' it hun'. Being kind to you with the truth might be cruel sometimes, and that's just the way the ball bounces. I'm not finding what you said cruel. I'll check out those links some time. eta: I await the frog's responses...if any.
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Post by laughter on Mar 10, 2015 17:15:22 GMT -5
This had nothing to do with the fig (as you claim here). Neither did this (in case you want to claim ambiguity). This was very obviously an "invite" to E': Not even you can be that confused about these posts. I'm not buyin' it hun'. Being kind to you with the truth might be cruel sometimes, and that's just the way the ball bounces. I'm not finding what you said cruel. I'll check out those links some time. eta: I await the frog's responses...if any. (** shakes head sadly **)
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Post by silver on Mar 10, 2015 17:28:10 GMT -5
I'm not finding what you said cruel. I'll check out those links some time. eta: I await the frog's responses...if any. (** shakes head sadly **)Just outta casual curiosity, what is so sad to you?
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