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Post by laughter on Oct 29, 2014 14:36:29 GMT -5
This is part of a PM exchange between myself and Silver:
So this is an invitation for two kinds of input:
(1) If you are a practicing Buddhist in Los Angeles and would like to invite Silver to your Sangha, please post here.
(2) If you're one of Silver's correspondents out on the forum with knowledge on Buddhism or a former or current practicing Buddhist, then the benefit of your insight would be appreciated.
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Post by laughter on Oct 29, 2014 16:07:59 GMT -5
My interest in this stuff's become like picking my way across the creek, rock to rock. Silver, my knowledge of Buddhism is pretty lightweight and I've never seriously considered the idea of taking it up. But on the other hand, I'd report that it's influence on my experience has been rather profound. I've never met a practicing Buddhist in the flesh, and what I know of it comes from reading a few books (Tao of Physics, Iron Cow of Zen, Pouring Concrete), general popular knowledge on the subject, yt vids from nonduality teachers such as Mooji, Tolle & Adya etc., and corresponding with people who are or who have been practicing Buddhists. From that reading and those correspondence, my impression is that, although there is a really rich cultural heritage of knowledge and stories and roadmaps available from Buddhism, that the real value for a Buddhist is what you are invited to do. If you're interested in what those prescriptions are, I'll relate them and how they've impacted my experience. Because those suggested actions that are what, in my opinion, constitute the essence of Buddhism and the source of it's potential impact on your experience, I'd encourage you to explore taking those actions. If you're interested, I can give you my take on what your options are for taking the first steps in those actions, but that will of course be based on my admittedly superficial knowledge on the topic. |
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Post by silver on Oct 29, 2014 18:26:17 GMT -5
My interest in this stuff's become like picking my way across the creek, rock to rock.
But on the other hand, I'd report that it's influence on my experience has been rather profound.
I've never met a practicing Buddhist in the flesh, and what I know of it comes from reading a few books (Tao of Physics, Iron Cow of Zen, Pouring Concrete), general popular knowledge on the subject, yt vids from nonduality teachers such as Mooji, Tolle & Adya etc., and corresponding with people who are or who have been practicing Buddhists.
From that reading and those correspondence, my impression is that, although there is a really rich cultural heritage of knowledge and stories and roadmaps available from Buddhism, that the real value for a Buddhist is what you are invited to do. If you're interested in what those prescriptions are, I'll relate them and how they've impacted my experience. Because those suggested actions that are what, in my opinion, constitute the essence of Buddhism and the source of it's potential impact on your experience, I'd encourage you to explore taking those actions. If you're interested, I can give you my take on what your options are for taking the first steps in those actions, but that will of course be based on my admittedly superficial knowledge on the topic. Anything you have to share in those regards are most welcome....I'd love to hear what you have to say about them. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 9:30:44 GMT -5
Insight Meditation LA -- This is sort of vipassana light, specifically geared towards lazy gringos like myself. It's okay to sit in a chair, stretch your legs, etc. Group talk is included in 'silent retreats' -- see Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg, Joseph Goldstein....Barre Center folks. I have lots of time sitting on cushion around folks like this. And look where it's got me! I'd put it in the 'gradualism path.' The idea that you can awaken in this lifetime is encouraged but it comes with an expectation that it will probably take a long time. There's lots of Zen happening in LA and Tibetan too, though I am too ignorant to recommend anything. For any of those you might have fun just going to their dharma talks, which happen once a week or so. A dharma talk usually lasts about an hour and there is meditation on the front end. Sometimes there is a beginner meditation drop in class on the front end too. Usually by donation or five bucks or you can do some volunteer work to help support it. Might be fun to start checking the circuit out. Also good way to meet like minded folks. And in my experience it's very easy to attend these things without talking to another soul, which usually suits my introverted fancy the best. As opposed to, say, a Unitarian Universalist congregation which are desperate for new blood to swell their meager dwindling ranks. Here's Trudy's most recent dharma talk
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Post by silver on Oct 30, 2014 10:31:47 GMT -5
Insight Meditation LA -- This is sort of vipassana light, specifically geared towards lazy gringos like myself. It's okay to sit in a chair, stretch your legs, etc. Group talk is included in 'silent retreats' -- see Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg, Joseph Goldstein....Barre Center folks. I have lots of time sitting on cushion around folks like this. And look where it's got me! I'd put it in the 'gradualism path.' The idea that you can awaken in this lifetime is encouraged but it comes with an expectation that it will probably take a long time. There's lots of Zen happening in LA and Tibetan too, though I am too ignorant to recommend anything. For any of those you might have fun just going to their dharma talks, which happen once a week or so. A dharma talk usually lasts about an hour and there is meditation on the front end. Sometimes there is a beginner meditation drop in class on the front end too. Usually by donation or five bucks or you can do some volunteer work to help support it. Might be fun to start checking the circuit out. Also good way to meet like minded folks. And in my experience it's very easy to attend these things without talking to another soul, which usually suits my introverted fancy the best. As opposed to, say, a Unitarian Universalist congregation which are desperate for new blood to swell their meager dwindling ranks. Here's Trudy's most recent dharma talk Thanks for the encouragement, Max. This has made a difference because I, too tend towards introversion. I will definitely take a look at the links you provided. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 10:34:29 GMT -5
Insight Meditation LA -- This is sort of vipassana light, specifically geared towards lazy gringos like myself. It's okay to sit in a chair, stretch your legs, etc. Group talk is included in 'silent retreats' -- see Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg, Joseph Goldstein....Barre Center folks. I have lots of time sitting on cushion around folks like this. And look where it's got me! I'd put it in the 'gradualism path.' The idea that you can awaken in this lifetime is encouraged but it comes with an expectation that it will probably take a long time. There's lots of Zen happening in LA and Tibetan too, though I am too ignorant to recommend anything. For any of those you might have fun just going to their dharma talks, which happen once a week or so. A dharma talk usually lasts about an hour and there is meditation on the front end. Sometimes there is a beginner meditation drop in class on the front end too. Usually by donation or five bucks or you can do some volunteer work to help support it. Might be fun to start checking the circuit out. Also good way to meet like minded folks. And in my experience it's very easy to attend these things without talking to another soul, which usually suits my introverted fancy the best. As opposed to, say, a Unitarian Universalist congregation which are desperate for new blood to swell their meager dwindling ranks. Here's Trudy's most recent dharma talk Thanks for the encouragement, Max. This has made a difference because I, too tend towards introversion. I will definitely take a look at the links you provided. I usually find dharma talks to be very interesting. Worth a listen. Also going to one in person will help demystify it. Or it should. If it doesn't go somewhere else. |
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Post by quinn on Oct 30, 2014 12:29:38 GMT -5
Hey, Silver. I agree with everything Max said. I did one retreat with Sharon Salzberg and Sylvia Boorstein and their talks were pretty wonderful. I think there are different approaches to buddhism, though. <side story> When I was 42, I decided to try Karate. I worked my way thru 5 belts and then got to the brown belt. The brown belt had 'tabs', each one the color of all the previous belts. What happens there is that you go back through everything you already learned and practiced, but do it at a much higher level. It takes a whole other level of commitment and discipline. (Which, at the time, I didn't have, in case you were wondering  ).</side story> I kind of see buddhism like that. There's a lot of value in the talks, books, teachings and they can be approached from the level of just making life a bit less insane. And that's a good thing! Beyond that, it's like Max said - gradual - but at another level of intensity and commitment from you. Some think there's no reason to go about it that gradually, other's think it's wiser to. I believe ZD said there was a point where he kind of put Zen aside and Adya has said something similar. All in all, though, I think it's a good endeavor. If nothing else, regular meditation lowers blood pressure!  |
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Post by silver on Oct 30, 2014 18:15:29 GMT -5
Hey, Silver. I agree with everything Max said. I did one retreat with Sharon Salzberg and Sylvia Boorstein and their talks were pretty wonderful. I think there are different approaches to buddhism, though. <side story> When I was 42, I decided to try Karate. I worked my way thru 5 belts and then got to the brown belt. The brown belt had 'tabs', each one the color of all the previous belts. What happens there is that you go back through everything you already learned and practiced, but do it at a much higher level. It takes a whole other level of commitment and discipline. (Which, at the time, I didn't have, in case you were wondering ).</side story> I kind of see buddhism like that. There's a lot of value in the talks, books, teachings and they can be approached from the level of just making life a bit less insane. And that's a good thing! Beyond that, it's like Max said - gradual - but at another level of intensity and commitment from you. Some think there's no reason to go about it that gradually, other's think it's wiser to. I believe ZD said there was a point where he kind of put Zen aside and Adya has said something similar. All in all, though, I think it's a good endeavor. If nothing else, regular meditation lowers blood pressure! I can just imagine you laughing at my asking if you think you'll ever go back and pick up that black belt. I know how it goes. Some new thing excites you...so much so, that you vow to take it to the limit. I feel that way about Buddhist philosophy. I know it's not something I would bet on just yet, but you never know.  |
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Post by quinn on Oct 30, 2014 19:40:37 GMT -5
Hey, Silver. I agree with everything Max said. I did one retreat with Sharon Salzberg and Sylvia Boorstein and their talks were pretty wonderful. I think there are different approaches to buddhism, though. <side story> When I was 42, I decided to try Karate. I worked my way thru 5 belts and then got to the brown belt. The brown belt had 'tabs', each one the color of all the previous belts. What happens there is that you go back through everything you already learned and practiced, but do it at a much higher level. It takes a whole other level of commitment and discipline. (Which, at the time, I didn't have, in case you were wondering ).</side story> I kind of see buddhism like that. There's a lot of value in the talks, books, teachings and they can be approached from the level of just making life a bit less insane. And that's a good thing! Beyond that, it's like Max said - gradual - but at another level of intensity and commitment from you. Some think there's no reason to go about it that gradually, other's think it's wiser to. I believe ZD said there was a point where he kind of put Zen aside and Adya has said something similar. All in all, though, I think it's a good endeavor. If nothing else, regular meditation lowers blood pressure! I can just imagine you laughing at my asking if you think you'll ever go back and pick up that black belt. I know how it goes. Some new thing excites you...so much so, that you vow to take it to the limit. I feel that way about Buddhist philosophy. I know it's not something I would bet on just yet, but you never know. Agreed, you never know. You could probably place some bets on me not going for a black belt, though.  |
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Post by laughter on Nov 1, 2014 9:58:55 GMT -5
Silver, my knowledge of Buddhism is pretty lightweight and I've never seriously considered the idea of taking it up.
But on the other hand, I'd report that it's influence on my experience has been rather profound.
I've never met a practicing Buddhist in the flesh, and what I know of it comes from reading a few books (Tao of Physics, Iron Cow of Zen, Pouring Concrete), general popular knowledge on the subject, yt vids from nonduality teachers such as Mooji, Tolle & Adya etc., and corresponding with people who are or who have been practicing Buddhists.
From that reading and those correspondence, my impression is that, although there is a really rich cultural heritage of knowledge and stories and roadmaps available from Buddhism, that the real value for a Buddhist is what you are invited to do. If you're interested in what those prescriptions are, I'll relate them and how they've impacted my experience. Because those suggested actions that are what, in my opinion, constitute the essence of Buddhism and the source of it's potential impact on your experience, I'd encourage you to explore taking those actions. If you're interested, I can give you my take on what your options are for taking the first steps in those actions, but that will of course be based on my admittedly superficial knowledge on the topic. Anything you have to share in those regards are most welcome....I'd love to hear what you have to say about them. Well, rather than expounding on a bunch of ideas, I decided just to look at what's available to you, and you've got lots of options. If you're interested in actually meeting some people who share your interest and want to vet the pro's/con's about which one will be the best fit for you, then float some potential gatherings ... just googling "Buddist sangha Los Angeles" brings back pages and pages of results. Whoever you decide to go meet would be lucky to have ya'. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 1, 2014 12:53:35 GMT -5
Silver, as Laffy noted, Buddhism is primarily about practice--about doing something, and almost all of the practices involve shifting attention away from thoughts to "what is." Whether it is Tibetan mantra recitation, Zen breath awareness, koan contemplation, shikan taza, or various forms of ATA, the idea is to break free from ideas and belief systems by putting one's attention upon what is real rather than imaginary. Of course, many Buddhists become strongly attached to a Buddhist belief system, and that's one of the many pitfalls in that tradition (and all traditions, for that matter).
FWIW there are as many denominations and sects in Buddhism as there are in Christianity, but Zen is probably the Buddhist tradition that is closest to the teachings of Advaita Vedanta and non-duality because it insists that no words or ideas are sacrosanct, including words and ideas about Zen. The core of most Buddhist traditions is meditation, and it is no accident that most statues of the Buddha show him sitting in meditation. Many non-duality teachers (Adya, Gangaji, Toni Packer, etc) initially pursued Zen, but eventually left it behind because of the formalism and historical spiritual beliefs it often promotes.
As Laffy suggested, check out what's available in your area, visit some sanghas, and see if you resonate with any of the groups. Most spiritual traditions involve a lot of peripheral nonsense, so you have to discern what has real value from what is worthless. Best wishes.
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Post by silver on Nov 1, 2014 13:31:46 GMT -5
Anything you have to share in those regards are most welcome....I'd love to hear what you have to say about them. Well, rather than expounding on a bunch of ideas, I decided just to look at what's available to you, and you've got lots of options. If you're interested in actually meeting some people who share your interest and want to vet the pro's/con's about which one will be the best fit for you, then float some potential gatherings ... just googling "Buddist sangha Los Angeles" brings back pages and pages of results. Whoever you decide to go meet would be lucky to have ya'. Well, okay.......thanks. |
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Post by silver on Nov 1, 2014 13:46:13 GMT -5
Silver, as Laffy noted, Buddhism is primarily about practice--about doing something, and almost all of the practices involve shifting attention away from thoughts to "what is." Whether it is Tibetan mantra recitation, Zen breath awareness, koan contemplation, shikan taza, or various forms of ATA, the idea is to break free from ideas and belief systems by putting one's attention upon what is real rather than imaginary. Of course, many Buddhists become strongly attached to a Buddhist belief system, and that's one of the many pitfalls in that tradition (and all traditions, for that matter). FWIW there are as many denominations and sects in Buddhism as there are in Christianity, but Zen is probably the Buddhist tradition that is closest to the teachings of Advaita Vedanta and non-duality because it insists that no words or ideas are sacrosanct, including words and ideas about Zen. The core of most Buddhist traditions is meditation, and it is no accident that most statues of the Buddha show him sitting in meditation. Many non-duality teachers (Adya, Gangaji, Toni Packer, etc) initially pursued Zen, but eventually left it behind because of the formalism and historical spiritual beliefs it often promotes. As Laffy suggested, check out what's available in your area, visit some sanghas, and see if you resonate with any of the groups. Most spiritual traditions involve a lot of peripheral nonsense, so you have to discern what has real value from what is worthless. Best wishes. Yes to the first paragraph: Just finished reading Buddhism without Belief by my so-far favorite author Stephen Batchelor - he makes it so easy to understand all the facets of the Buddhist philosophy. Plus, I've run across another great author and book that reads like so many here talk - but with a difference - without the contentiousness - and with compassion and patience. It's called: Essential Chan Buddhism by Chan Master Guo Jun (his first book). It's helping to build my knowledge and fleshing out the picture of what it's all about. Oh, and plus I have next in my queue of books Adya's The End of Your World, plus several more. I don't know how seriously I'll consider getting out amongst it until I feel I have developed a decent body of knowledge about Buddhism, though. I've gained so much from Batchelor's books mentioned plus this new one, I'd recommend them to any and all - even you, in spite of the fact you've already been around the block a time or two. And thanks - your words are always something I look forward to.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 14:10:10 GMT -5
whenever poppa farmer saw me leaning on a shovel instead of using one, he would sarcastically say "do something, even if its wrong" |
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Post by laughter on Nov 3, 2014 2:31:31 GMT -5
Silver, as Laffy noted, Buddhism is primarily about practice--about doing something, and almost all of the practices involve shifting attention away from thoughts to "what is." Whether it is Tibetan mantra recitation, Zen breath awareness, koan contemplation, shikan taza, or various forms of ATA, the idea is to break free from ideas and belief systems by putting one's attention upon what is real rather than imaginary. Of course, many Buddhists become strongly attached to a Buddhist belief system, and that's one of the many pitfalls in that tradition (and all traditions, for that matter). FWIW there are as many denominations and sects in Buddhism as there are in Christianity, but Zen is probably the Buddhist tradition that is closest to the teachings of Advaita Vedanta and non-duality because it insists that no words or ideas are sacrosanct, including words and ideas about Zen. The core of most Buddhist traditions is meditation, and it is no accident that most statues of the Buddha show him sitting in meditation. Many non-duality teachers (Adya, Gangaji, Toni Packer, etc) initially pursued Zen, but eventually left it behind because of the formalism and historical spiritual beliefs it often promotes. As Laffy suggested, check out what's available in your area, visit some sanghas, and see if you resonate with any of the groups. Most spiritual traditions involve a lot of peripheral nonsense, so you have to discern what has real value from what is worthless. Best wishes. Yes to the first paragraph: Just finished reading Buddhism without Belief by my so-far favorite author Stephen Batchelor - he makes it so easy to understand all the facets of the Buddhist philosophy. Plus, I've run across another great author and book that reads like so many here talk - but with a difference - without the contentiousness - and with compassion and patience. It's called: Essential Chan Buddhism by Chan Master Guo Jun (his first book). It's helping to build my knowledge and fleshing out the picture of what it's all about. Oh, and plus I have next in my queue of books Adya's The End of Your World, plus several more. I don't know how seriously I'll consider getting out amongst it until I feel I have developed a decent body of knowledge about Buddhism, though. I've gained so much from Batchelor's books mentioned plus this new one, I'd recommend them to any and all - even you, in spite of the fact you've already been around the block a time or two. And thanks - your words are always something I look forward to. Well, there's no time like the present, and you never know ... you might just meet someone in person who can help you understand what you want to understand. ... anyone who wouldn't accept you 'cause of some perceived lack of preparation isn't someone worthy of your time anyway. These peeps look legit to me. The head dude was a student of Kornfield and they're into social action. Look at all the smiles here! Here's the list I got those from. ... personally, if I was gonna' do this, I'd go somewhere's like here's ... |
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).</side story>
