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Post by laughter on Oct 23, 2014 16:51:06 GMT -5
Identification and attachment are two different phenomena and the quote from Adya completely contradicts the permanent peace/joy/ease dogma you've both advocated in the MT's. It doesn't contradict a fundamental Happiness at all. I agree they are different phenomena, but they are similar enough. Yes it does. While identification and attachment are related they really aren't comparable, more like, complimentary. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 23, 2014 16:53:33 GMT -5
By referencing does he mean judging? Or labelling? If so, I agree. No, it's very clear from the text as a whole that by "referencing" he means a self reference such as "I know that I am in complete acceptance because I feel peace, joy and ease". I haven't read the whole text, I just saw this... ''Part of not getting caught in illusion is to give up referencing the way we think and feel. A big part of wisdom is to give up referencing the positive thoughts and feelings.'' However, I would agree that 'I know that I am in complete acceptance because I feel peace, ease, joy' would have to be 'given up'. Acceptance is a not-knowing, not an 'I know'. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 23, 2014 16:54:26 GMT -5
It doesn't contradict a fundamental Happiness at all. I agree they are different phenomena, but they are similar enough. Yes it does. While identification and attachment are related they really aren't comparable, more like, complimentary. No it doesn't. 'Related' and 'complimentary' is fine with me. |
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Post by figgles on Oct 23, 2014 19:15:42 GMT -5
It doesn't contradict a fundamental Happiness at all. I agree they are different phenomena, but they are similar enough. Yes it does. While identification and attachment are related they really aren't comparable, more like, complimentary. "In essence the entire spiritual endeavor is a very simple thing: Spirituality is essentially about awakening as the intuitive awareness of unity and dissolving our attachment to egoic consciousness. "
Adyashanti 2008 You don't think the words in that quote, 'dissolving our attachment to' could be replaced with the words 'dissolving identification with' and the meaning would remain pretty much the same? |
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Post by figgles on Oct 23, 2014 19:44:36 GMT -5
Identification and attachment are two different phenomena and the quote from Adya completely contradicts the permanent peace/joy/ease dogma you've both advocated in the MT's. Are you sure about that? If so, that quote would completely contradict this Q&A with Adyashanti below: |
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Post by enigma on Oct 24, 2014 2:43:50 GMT -5
I think he means give up using them as part of an escape plan.  lol I took that as a given I specifically remember in his book he said "Andrew, stop using feeling as part of your escape plan."  |
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Post by laughter on Oct 24, 2014 3:54:55 GMT -5
Yes it does. While identification and attachment are related they really aren't comparable, more like, complimentary. "In essence the entire spiritual endeavor is a very simple thing: Spirituality is essentially about awakening as the intuitive awareness of unity and dissolving our attachment to egoic consciousness. "
Adyashanti 2008 You don't think the words in that quote, 'dissolving our attachment to' could be replaced with the words 'dissolving identification with' and the meaning would remain pretty much the same? To see that they aren't interchangeable, just ask the question, who consciously identifies with ego? |
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Post by laughter on Oct 24, 2014 3:59:13 GMT -5
Identification and attachment are two different phenomena and the quote from Adya completely contradicts the permanent peace/joy/ease dogma you've both advocated in the MT's. Are you sure about that? If so, that quote would completely contradict this Q&A with Adyashanti below: He was asked about his experience and answered. He didn't tell everyone in the audience that they should define themselves by his description of his feeling state, and in ED, he's quite clear about that. What does that mean to you? |
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Post by andrew on Oct 24, 2014 4:14:18 GMT -5
lol I took that as a given I specifically remember in his book he said "Andrew, stop using feeling as part of your escape plan." hehe its nice to know my delusions are that well known then! |
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Post by laughter on Oct 24, 2014 4:15:13 GMT -5
Disagreeing with Mr. Grey's idea that feeling states tell you nothing about what you are would be fine, really. An effort to morph what was written in the last MT to match it up with that idea though? ... well that's obviously an exercise in self-deception.  |
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Post by andrew on Oct 24, 2014 4:16:04 GMT -5
Disagreeing with Mr. Grey's idea that feeling states tell you nothing about what you are would be fine, really. An effort to morph what was written in the last MT to match it up with that idea though? ... well that's obviously an exercise in self-deception. I got no idea what you are talking about. All I know is that quote doesn't contradict anything we said. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 24, 2014 9:55:42 GMT -5
I specifically remember in his book he said "Andrew, stop using feeling as part of your escape plan." hehe its nice to know my delusions are that well known then! Well, everybody's trying to help in their own way, you know. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 24, 2014 11:59:32 GMT -5
hehe its nice to know my delusions are that well known then! Well, everybody's trying to help in their own way, you know. Aw you guys...you're just too kind! |
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Post by figgles on Oct 24, 2014 12:13:37 GMT -5
"In essence the entire spiritual endeavor is a very simple thing: Spirituality is essentially about awakening as the intuitive awareness of unity and dissolving our attachment to egoic consciousness. "
Adyashanti 2008 You don't think the words in that quote, 'dissolving our attachment to' could be replaced with the words 'dissolving identification with' and the meaning would remain pretty much the same? To see that they aren't interchangeable, just ask the question, who consciously identifies with ego? Not quite sure what you're saying...? Neither identification with egoic consciousness, nor attachment to egoic consciousness involves a conscious 'doing/identifying ' on the part of a who. Both happen as a result of an absence of awareness. Attachment to egoic consciousness has unconsciousness as it's basis, as does identification with egoic consciousness. |
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Post by figgles on Oct 24, 2014 12:22:50 GMT -5
He was asked about his experience and answered. He didn't tell everyone in the audience that they should define themselves by his description of his feeling state, and in ED, he's quite clear about that. right. But, when asked, he is able to answer, and his answer does very much indicate an underlying, foundational sense of ease/well-being. Just what Andrew and I have been saying in that regard. Addressing the feeling state when awakening happens, need not involve 'defining self' by feeling state. Feelings are indeed an integral facet of all experience, but to say that is a far cry from using feelings to define. I would say that using anything, any aspect of experience to define self is a turning away from freedom, a heading backwards into limitation. What does that mean to you?[/quote] It's pretty self explanatory I'd say. There is no intermediary getting pulled into making fundamental judgments about what's happening..no sense of a being a 'doer' who is responsible for the happening......everything just unfolds, as it will, in each and every present moment, and there's a fundamental acceptance/allowance of it all. |
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