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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 8, 2014 19:10:52 GMT -5
My definition of perfection may be narrower than others. I just don't see perfection in the chaotic unfolding of the universe. But of course I'm not very speerichool and hardly a mystic, though for many long years now I've read the mystical literature from a large variety of expounders. Must be a defect in my cognitive abilities. I just don't get it.I think that's a rational thought, so I guess I can't help but agree with you there.......plus I don't get it either, but I'm not adverse to playing along sometimes. When you watch a movie, regardless of your opinion of it as good or bad, it still functions perfectly as a product of projection. The play between the projector light, film and the movie screen operate in perfect unison and in so doing project an illusory sequence of scenes on the screen that seems very real to the watcher. It could seem so real that you completely lose yourself in the fictional drama only to remember yourself again when the lights come on. But when you leave the theater you know that no one really found love, or good fortune or bad luck. No one was harmed no matter how much blood seemed to flow. It was all an illusion that you were glad to pay $15 to see...or not. As a projection, the movie it did its job perfectly. In a similar way some see the world as such a perfect play of projector light (Source), film (mind) and movie screen (apparent reality) in which nothing truly bad or good actually happens, and nothing real is ever harmed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 19:33:16 GMT -5
I think that's a rational thought, so I guess I can't help but agree with you there.......plus I don't get it either, but I'm not adverse to playing along sometimes. When you watch a movie, regardless of your opinion of it as good or bad, it still functions perfectly as a product of projection. The play between the projector light, film and the movie screen operate in perfect unison and in so doing project an illusory sequence of scenes on the screen that seems very real to the watcher. It could seem so real that you completely lose yourself in the fictional drama only to remember yourself again when the lights come on. But when you leave the theater you know that no one really found love, or good fortune or bad luck. No one was harmed no matter how much blood seemed to flow. It was all an illusion that you were glad to pay $15 to see...or not. As a projection, the movie it did its job perfectly. In a similar way some see the world as such a perfect play of projector light (Source), film (mind) and movie screen (apparent reality) in which nothing truly bad or good actually happens, and nothing real is ever harmed. I could get on board with that, except I don't see how people can make the necessary distinction between reality and fiction. It's one thing to subscribe to the theory that phenomenal life is illusory, and another thing to know it with finality.
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 8, 2014 19:55:46 GMT -5
When you watch a movie, regardless of your opinion of it as good or bad, it still functions perfectly as a product of projection. The play between the projector light, film and the movie screen operate in perfect unison and in so doing project an illusory sequence of scenes on the screen that seems very real to the watcher. It could seem so real that you completely lose yourself in the fictional drama only to remember yourself again when the lights come on. But when you leave the theater you know that no one really found love, or good fortune or bad luck. No one was harmed no matter how much blood seemed to flow. It was all an illusion that you were glad to pay $15 to see...or not. As a projection, the movie it did its job perfectly. In a similar way some see the world as such a perfect play of projector light (Source), film (mind) and movie screen (apparent reality) in which nothing truly bad or good actually happens, and nothing real is ever harmed. I could get on board with that, except I don't see how people can make the necessary distinction between reality and fiction. It's one thing to subscribe to the theory that phenomenal life is illusory, and another thing to know it with finality. Not to worry. It's just a perspective. Perhaps food for thought.
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 8, 2014 21:16:57 GMT -5
I think that's a rational thought, so I guess I can't help but agree with you there.......plus I don't get it either, but I'm not adverse to playing along sometimes. When you watch a movie, regardless of your opinion of it as good or bad, it still functions perfectly as a product of projection. The play between the projector light, film and the movie screen operate in perfect unison and in so doing project an illusory sequence of scenes on the screen that seems very real to the watcher. It could seem so real that you completely lose yourself in the fictional drama only to remember yourself again when the lights come on. But when you leave the theater you know that no one really found love, or good fortune or bad luck. No one was harmed no matter how much blood seemed to flow. It was all an illusion that you were glad to pay $15 to see...or not. As a projection, the movie it did its job perfectly. In a similar way some see the world as such a perfect play of projector light (Source), film (mind) and movie screen (apparent reality) in which nothing truly bad or good actually happens, and nothing real is ever harmed. When the mind is still, it doesn't generate those explanations of what it thinks it experiences.. when the mind is active after having experienced stillness even once, it is aware of its own explanations as distortions of what was experienced, so.. rather than add to the already overly abundant supply of distorted beliefs, that experiencer is inspired to help others find their own stillness/clarity, rather than adopt someone else's.. if the stillness is genuine, the result is the same..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 21:44:04 GMT -5
When you watch a movie, regardless of your opinion of it as good or bad, it still functions perfectly as a product of projection. The play between the projector light, film and the movie screen operate in perfect unison and in so doing project an illusory sequence of scenes on the screen that seems very real to the watcher. It could seem so real that you completely lose yourself in the fictional drama only to remember yourself again when the lights come on. But when you leave the theater you know that no one really found love, or good fortune or bad luck. No one was harmed no matter how much blood seemed to flow. It was all an illusion that you were glad to pay $15 to see...or not. As a projection, the movie it did its job perfectly. In a similar way some see the world as such a perfect play of projector light (Source), film (mind) and movie screen (apparent reality) in which nothing truly bad or good actually happens, and nothing real is ever harmed. When the mind is still, it doesn't generate those explanations of what it thinks it experiences.. when the mind is active after having experienced stillness even once, it is aware of its own explanations as distortions of what was experienced, so.. rather than add to the already overly abundant supply of distorted beliefs, that experiencer is inspired to help others find their own stillness/clarity, rather than adopt someone else's.. if the stillness is genuine, the result is the same.. You basically advocate a sort of muted stupidity.
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 8, 2014 22:06:52 GMT -5
When the mind is still, it doesn't generate those explanations of what it thinks it experiences.. when the mind is active after having experienced stillness even once, it is aware of its own explanations as distortions of what was experienced, so.. rather than add to the already overly abundant supply of distorted beliefs, that experiencer is inspired to help others find their own stillness/clarity, rather than adopt someone else's.. if the stillness is genuine, the result is the same.. You basically advocate a sort of muted stupidity. That may be your interpretation, but.. what i advocate is that the experiencer can discover, for themselves, what is happening.. when someone insists that the experiencer agree with a particular perspective of what is happening, they are attempting to limit the experiencer's opportunity to experience the authenticity of their own existence..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 22:10:38 GMT -5
You basically advocate a sort of muted stupidity. That may be your interpretation, but.. what i advocate is that the experiencer can discover, for themselves, what is happening.. when someone insists that the experiencer agree with a particular perspective of what is happening, they are attempting to limit the experiencer's opportunity to experience the authenticity of their own existence.. You basically advocate a self-reliant, muted stupidity.
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Post by silver on Aug 8, 2014 22:19:34 GMT -5
That may be your interpretation, but.. what i advocate is that the experiencer can discover, for themselves, what is happening.. when someone insists that the experiencer agree with a particular perspective of what is happening, they are attempting to limit the experiencer's opportunity to experience the authenticity of their own existence.. You basically advocate a self-reliant, muted stupidity. R U sober? heh heh
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 22:24:49 GMT -5
You basically advocate a self-reliant, muted stupidity. R U sober? heh heh Sober enough.
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Post by relinquish on Aug 8, 2014 22:26:32 GMT -5
It could be if someone is leaning on the idea as a way of coping with the world rather than trying to express something that is ultimately inexpressible. As you've reasoned, if there is perfection then there is imperfection, and in the case where someone is stating the perfection of totality absent a conditioned opinion, what they mean by perfection isn't subject to an opposite. It's the same pattern that happens when any one of a number of other words are used to point: peace, love, stillness, silence, joy, spaciousness, etc... Perfection is a pointer that gets lots of folk nauseous. It's not worth spinnin' on if you don't like it, just throw it away! My definition of perfection may be narrower than others. I just don't see perfection in the chaotic unfolding of the universe. But of course I'm not very speerichool and hardly a mystic, though for many long years now I've read the mystical literature from a large variety of expounders. Must be a defect in my cognitive abilities. I just don't get it. Absolute chaos itself can only be absolutely 'perfect' at being absolutely chaotic. It can never fail at being what it is or the way it is.
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Post by relinquish on Aug 8, 2014 22:28:21 GMT -5
When you watch a movie, regardless of your opinion of it as good or bad, it still functions perfectly as a product of projection. The play between the projector light, film and the movie screen operate in perfect unison and in so doing project an illusory sequence of scenes on the screen that seems very real to the watcher. It could seem so real that you completely lose yourself in the fictional drama only to remember yourself again when the lights come on. But when you leave the theater you know that no one really found love, or good fortune or bad luck. No one was harmed no matter how much blood seemed to flow. It was all an illusion that you were glad to pay $15 to see...or not. As a projection, the movie it did its job perfectly. In a similar way some see the world as such a perfect play of projector light (Source), film (mind) and movie screen (apparent reality) in which nothing truly bad or good actually happens, and nothing real is ever harmed. When the mind is still, it doesn't generate those explanations of what it thinks it experiences.. when the mind is active after having experienced stillness even once, it is aware of its own explanations as distortions of what was experienced, so.. rather than add to the already overly abundant supply of distorted beliefs, that experiencer is inspired to help others find their own stillness/clarity, rather than adopt someone else's.. if the stillness is genuine, the result is the same.. Maybe a 'still mind' is not an 'objective', but just another passing state?
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Post by relinquish on Aug 8, 2014 22:39:06 GMT -5
The universe can be neither totally chaotic nor totally ordered. Either option would be one of absolute incoherence. At any rate, neither one can appear without the other.
The fact that communication of any sort is possible at all is evidence that the universe has a certain 'coherence' to it, which implies kind of fundamentally equal unity between both absolute chaos and absolute order.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 22:53:39 GMT -5
The universe can be neither totally chaotic nor totally ordered. Either option would be one of absolute incoherence. At any rate, neither one can appear without the other. The fact that communication of any sort is possible at all is evidence that the universe has a certain 'coherence' to it, which implies kind of fundamentally equal unity between both absolute chaos and absolute order. That is, I think, a better description of the universe than saying it is "perfect".
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Post by relinquish on Aug 8, 2014 23:04:35 GMT -5
The universe can be neither totally chaotic nor totally ordered. Either option would be one of absolute incoherence. At any rate, neither one can appear without the other. The fact that communication of any sort is possible at all is evidence that the universe has a certain 'coherence' to it, which implies kind of fundamentally equal unity between both absolute chaos and absolute order. That is, I think, a better description of the universe than saying it is "perfect". Of course, at the end of the day, it's all just semantics, but I'd say the 'Perfection' I'm talking about has a capital 'P'.
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Post by silence on Aug 8, 2014 23:06:04 GMT -5
So what do we all think of this idea I just had? The universe is a 'garden' that eternally blooms with effortless perfection and completeness in Reality's 'outside', from the eternal seed that is Realities 'inside' (THIS 'experiencing' THIS). ALL 'things' are included in this garden. This, to me, is non-duality. I think it's just another idea among many.
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