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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2014 21:45:14 GMT -5
I'll try it, empty. But see, already there are all these memories of reading UG Krishnamurti disparaging meditation, so I'm like "what's the point if it doesn't work?" I think I've read so many different people that I dont know what's what anymore. Doesn't work refers to the fact that any and all attempts to escape are futile. Can you sit down and shut up without on some level trying to escape? As long as the meds are working, I can. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 26, 2014 22:44:59 GMT -5
djembebum.......I can totally relate. In 1974, '75 and '76 I suffered periods of almost unbearable depression (but I didn't put that label on it until 1976). I was in a constant battle within, the UGK quote is very apt for my state then. I struggled to find a reason to get up and move about every day, I had no meaning. I couldn't see a future. I continually had a lot of negative self-talk even though I had been reading J. Krishnamurti since about 1971. By '74 I had also read Carlos Castaneda so knew about stopping the internal dialogue and Joseph Chilton Pearce's Crack in the Cosmic Egg, his language was roof-brain chatter. But knowing that the internal tape loops could stop didn't help me to stop them. I became unbearable to myself. I got to the point that I had to escape from my own negative thinking. I've mentioned this before here on ST's, I had been ice skating since I was ten, so I used this and could stop my thoughts briefly by watching the movement of my legs while skating. However, I got to the point of considering suicide to end the non-stop internal dialogue. By then I had moved back in with my parents so I didn't have to worry about taking care of myself, as in, roof and food. I got to the point that I literally could not do anythng. I narrowed down my life to a few seconds. I got to the point that all I could do was put one foot in front of the other, and when I did that I did it again. I literally erased the future. Part of my problem was not seeing me doing anything in the future, so my focus narrowed to getting through the next few seconds. This helped, but the constant internal dialogue would not stop. During my last period of time of seriously considering suicide I said to myself, I don't care if I live or die. And then something clicked inside, I said to myself, well, if that's true, then I might-as-well live. Somehow that brought a sense of relief. Now, I had known that the internal dialogue was just the replaying of recorded tape-loops in my mind, but this relief brought some distance inside. In my mind I had known that the tape-loops weren't me, but the knowing became deeper than conceptual knowing, I knew I was going to be OK, something had broken loose inside. .........and within a month I had a "When the student is ready........"..__________.... Sense then everything has not been easy, but I've had a compass that keeps bringing me back on track........ All I can say is just keep exploring attention. There is scattered attention, interested attention and voluntary attention. Your attention is separate from thoughts, emotions, movements and sensations. If you find the present moment, thoughts will stop, because thought always involves time, thought is always in some sense a replay or a description. (That's not to say that it's impossible to simultaneously be in thought and in the present moment, but, I'd say that's a more complicated state of consciousness and maybe further down the road......)........ sdp Thanks sdp  Sure........ sdp |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2014 22:49:42 GMT -5
More Tolle .. here's the quote I was talking about:
Your mind is an instrument, a tool. It is there to be used for a specific task, and when the task is completed, you lay it down. As it is, I would say about 80 to 90 percent of most peoples thinking is not only repetitive and useless, but because of its dysfunctional and often negative nature, much of it is also harmful. Observe your mind and you will find this to be true. It causes a serious leakage of vital energy.So I took his advice to "watch the thinker" and I looked to see for myself .. were most of my thoughts these repetitive useless negative, energy-sucking loops?  .. When I realized he was right, I lost interest in those thoughts. They simply dried up.  Hey, if you're interested in trying this for yourself let me know and I'll share a paragraph from Tolle and what I seesasked the key to the whole shootin' match in my own words -- please don't feel obligated to listen to any of that though. If you're not interested, that's way more than fine man. yes I'd like to read it |
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Post by enigma on Apr 27, 2014 2:51:05 GMT -5
It's pretty clear to me that the reason you 'awakened' was not really about any practice. It was about desperation, willingness, sincerity, dedication, devotion and passion. If you can figure out how to bottle that, I can find a market for it.  Well, we have a difference of opinion about that, but there's no way to know for sure. However, if I can find a way to bottle the desperation, willingness, sincerity, dedication, devotion, curiosity, passion, insane need to understand what's going on, etc, then I'll want part of the royalties from the sale of those bottles! Absotively, but we should call it 'Enigma'.  |
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Post by laughter on Apr 27, 2014 5:16:57 GMT -5
More Tolle .. here's the quote I was talking about:
Your mind is an instrument, a tool. It is there to be used for a specific task, and when the task is completed, you lay it down. As it is, I would say about 80 to 90 percent of most peoples thinking is not only repetitive and useless, but because of its dysfunctional and often negative nature, much of it is also harmful. Observe your mind and you will find this to be true. It causes a serious leakage of vital energy.So I took his advice to "watch the thinker" and I looked to see for myself .. were most of my thoughts these repetitive useless negative, energy-sucking loops? .. When I realized he was right, I lost interest in those thoughts. They simply dried up. Hey, if you're interested in trying this for yourself let me know and I'll share a paragraph from Tolle and what I sees as the key to the whole shootin' match in my own words -- please don't feel obligated to listen to any of that though. If you're not interested, that's way more than fine man. yes I'd like to read it
When you listen to that voice, listen to it impartially. That is to say, do not judge. Do not judge or condemn what you hear, for doing so would mean that the same voice has come in again through the back door. You'll soon realize: there is the voice, and here I am listening to it, watching it. This I am realization, this sense of your own presence, is not a thought. I arises from beyond the mind.You find yourself in the gap between thoughts. When I first read what Tolle was referring to there I was like " that? that simple boring feeling of nothing?  ... oh! yeah, that!". It's very subtle for sure. In one sense, it's very mundane, subdued, pedestrian .. but that is what all the hub-bub is about. The commonality available to anyone anytime, all the time with just one single good deep breath and a fresh look around at whereever you happen to be. In watching thoughts, to sustain the gap, the orientation toward each thought is paramount. They must be treated gently. What you said here about refraining from conjecturing as to the truth value of the statement is on the right track but this orientation that I'm referring to goes a bit deeper than that. The thoughts that arise in the witnessing aren't taken as true, not taken as false, not treated as maybe true, but the witness doesn't simply suspend the decision. The orientation of the witness toward the thought that arises is really an absence of orientation. To touch the thought with the mind at all is to give it an energy of it's own, but if it's left to it's own devices it will simply sail on through .. it will evaporate like an overnight dewdrop on the blade of grass of the mind in the late morning sun of empty, open awareness. Watching the thinker is not something that you need compartmentalize -- it's actually much more effective to catch the nattering nahbob in action where he lives in his natural habitat as you go about life -- but to set aside some time each day to deliberately witness helps establish a habit that makes it more likely to suddenly notice yourself lost somewhere in the bunny warren. You see, the process of thinking is such that an initial thought hooking attention and recursively leading us away from the present moment is pretty much an inevitability -- there's absolutely nothing wrong with thought or thinking itself. It's important in the instant of noticing, when that's occurred -- whether that's sitting or in any given moment of the day -- of maintaining that same gentle, open and accepting posture. In those instants, whatever you're thinking, just let it slide. Take it easy on yourself -- you deserve a break man. The advice you've been given about combining shifting attention away from thought with a hike is also pure gold. I have to say that it was the love of the outdoors -- sunsets, views, the scents and sounds of the woods -- that gave me a reference for what Tolle was talking about when he referred to that "felt sense of Being". |
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Post by silence on Apr 27, 2014 10:54:42 GMT -5
Doesn't work refers to the fact that any and all attempts to escape are futile. Can you sit down and shut up without on some level trying to escape? As long as the meds are working, I can. What are the meds doing for you? |
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