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Post by silver on Mar 16, 2014 2:01:42 GMT -5
The person is looking for personal meaning; something to give his sense of personhood purpose. A goal, a potential accomplishment, the sense of being part of something greater, a windmill to tilt, a legacy to leave, justification for his trials and tribulations. All of this searching and striving darkens and obscures the simple beauty and wonder and terrible power of this world that drives God mad. ... and the real meaning is so simple, so obvious, and so much easier to grasp ... it's the cosmic joke writ large!! So...who is it you're laughing at? Your whole approach is downright silly. *shrug*
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Post by laughter on Mar 16, 2014 2:04:28 GMT -5
... and the real meaning is so simple, so obvious, and so much easier to grasp ... it's the cosmic joke writ large!! So...who is it you're laughing at? Your whole approach is downright silly. *shrug* (** muttley snicker **)
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Post by Reefs on Mar 16, 2014 3:46:13 GMT -5
The person is looking for personal meaning; something to give his sense of personhood purpose. A goal, a potential accomplishment, the sense of being part of something greater, a windmill to tilt, a legacy to leave, justification for his trials and tribulations. All of this searching and striving darkens and obscures the simple beauty and wonder and terrible power of this world that drives God mad.What the di.ckens does that mean?
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 16, 2014 7:22:46 GMT -5
It's the kind of thing that you can turn on it's head and it will point the same way ... consider that in simply consciously regarding what is in front of you in this very moment, regardless of whether it's a lump of coal, a bar of gold, a grey rainswept sky or a ray of sunlight through the water in a goldfish bowl ... you can find and feel a profound and deep meaning that is beyond expression with words ... this is the same notion as "nothing that appears to you has meaning". The person is looking for personal meaning; something to give his sense of personhood purpose. A goal, a potential accomplishment, the sense of being part of something greater, a windmill to tilt, a legacy to leave, justification for his trials and tribulations. All of this searching and striving darkens and obscures the simple beauty and wonder and terrible power of this world that drives God mad. What darkens and obscures, is the illusion some people have that their beliefs are so superior that they can self-justify the spiritual abuse of others for the sake of embellishing their own personal beliefs.. 'God' is simply a character in the illusion used to play on the socio-political-religious conditioning of society and manipulate the experiences of others.. let that go, experience Life without the filter of those beliefs distorting what is experienced..
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 16, 2014 8:18:47 GMT -5
I agree with this. I suppose I'm asking a question that cannot be answered. Let me ask it in a different way. The sense I get from non-duality teachers is that there is really nothing at stake in life. Life is just a game and when we die the pieces of the game merely go back into the box. It seems that nothing matters if All is One. I get married, have kids, go work, go to PTA. My brother becomes a thief, picks people's pockets, "works" a few days a week, has a nice home, plays golf. One earns their way in life, one lives off the work of other people. No judgment, no karma, both are equal. If all is One, how cannot they not be equal? If there is no I, no individuality, how cannot everything be equal? So, I go back to the OP question, if non-duality is the case, if Intelligence is the Source of all this, (if all this emerges out-of Source and is identical to Source) for what purpose? If non-duality is the case, it seems that nothing means anything. [OTOH, if we are offspring, in some sense, of Source, with Source, via creation, kicking us out of the nest so to speak, without a parachute, and we can either return to Source, or not, then, that makes life real, not a game. This is my view in a nutshell]. Non-duality doesn't do anything for me. And then most non-duality teachers say there is nothing one can do concerning realization. It seems it (conceptual non-dual "teaching", because as zazeniac points out, anything one can say is automatically dualistic) puts people to sleep instead of waking them up. sdp Then I suggest you ignore nonduality, and discussions about nonduality, and pursue your interests. I like to look at it as bringing balance to the Force.......... ......... sdp
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 16, 2014 8:44:03 GMT -5
I agree with this. I suppose I'm asking a question that cannot be answered. Let me ask it in a different way. The sense I get from non-duality teachers is that there is really nothing at stake in life. Life is just a game and when we die the pieces of the game merely go back into the box. It seems that nothing matters if All is One. I get married, have kids, go work, go to PTA. My brother becomes a thief, picks people's pockets, "works" a few days a week, has a nice home, plays golf. One earns their way in life, one lives off the work of other people. No judgment, no karma, both are equal. If all is One, how cannot they not be equal? If there is no I, no individuality, how cannot everything be equal? So, I go back to the OP question, if non-duality is the case, if Intelligence is the Source of all this, (if all this emerges out-of Source and is identical to Source) for what purpose? If non-duality is the case, it seems that nothing means anything. [OTOH, if we are offspring, in some sense, of Source, with Source, via creation, kicking us out of the nest so to speak, without a parachute, and we can either return to Source, or not, then, that makes life real, not a game. This is my view in a nutshell]. Non-duality doesn't do anything for me. And then most non-duality teachers say there is nothing one can do concerning realization. It seems it (conceptual non-dual "teaching", because as zazeniac points out, anything one can say is automatically dualistic) puts people to sleep instead of waking them up. sdp Then I suggest you ignore nonduality, and discussions about nonduality, and pursue your interests. Why? Rather than openly and honestly, without ridicule, mockery, or provocation, engaging those that present opportunities for you to reveal how your beliefs are beneficial to the experiencer, you choose to send them away? That model is the same as Fox News, keep reinforcing the beliefs to those that believe, and exile those that don't conform.. I suggest that that nonduality be examined/experienced openly and with genuine curiosity, and the usefulness of the understandings of the beliefs related to nonduality, be examined with the openness that allows the usefulness to be integrated into the experiencer's awareness..
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Post by Reefs on Mar 16, 2014 9:13:02 GMT -5
That model is the same as Fox News, keep reinforcing the beliefs to those that believe, and exile those that don't conform.. I don't pay much attention to news on tv or internet, but I do consider it a good thing for people to awaken to what's happening on the planet. That requires learning something that you won't learn from CNN. You seem to be a classic example of someone that has been fed information through mass media, and have bought into it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 9:13:27 GMT -5
Then I suggest you ignore nonduality, and discussions about nonduality, and pursue your interests. I like to look at it as bringing balance to the Force.......... ......... sdp To my simplistic mind, it seems like the impossible reconciliation of diametrically opposed outlooks.
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Post by enigma on Mar 16, 2014 9:44:23 GMT -5
Then I suggest you ignore nonduality, and discussions about nonduality, and pursue your interests. I like to look at it as bringing balance to the Force.......... ......... sdp Yes, that's how Tzu likes to think about what he does too, but it lacks openness, honesty and the willingness to see WIBIGO.
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Post by runstill on Mar 16, 2014 10:14:24 GMT -5
Then I suggest you ignore nonduality, and discussions about nonduality, and pursue your interests. I like to look at it as bringing balance to the Force.......... ......... sdp Looks like your in quite the spiritual pickle then.........
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Post by enigma on Mar 16, 2014 10:24:55 GMT -5
I like to look at it as bringing balance to the Force.......... ......... sdp Looks like your in quite the spiritual pickle then.........
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Post by laughter on Mar 16, 2014 10:35:20 GMT -5
Looks like your in quite the spiritual pickle then.........
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Post by laughter on Mar 16, 2014 10:36:26 GMT -5
The questions about and the objections to nonduality are timeless and as long as there are human beings they will be what they are.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 10:55:33 GMT -5
The questions about and the objections to nonduality are timeless and as long as there are human beings they will be what they are. When there are 'objections' to non-duality or questions about it, is that really so different than questioning any other idea, philosophy, religion or explanation/model that tries to talk about the truth of 'what is'? As long as there are human made ideas put forth to try to explain that which defies explanation, there will be humans to question them....'cause most humans, if they take the time to look can quite easily see a belief system when they encounter it. & I know, I know, you'll say that non-duality is NOT a belief...not a system....but when you get right down to it, it still is a means of explaining wibigo...a story about this.
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Post by laughter on Mar 16, 2014 11:06:05 GMT -5
The questions about and the objections to nonduality are timeless and as long as there are human beings they will be what they are. When there are 'objections' to non-duality or questions about it, is that really so different than questioning any other idea, philosophy, religion or explanation/model that tries to talk about the truth of 'what is'? Capt. Obvious snaps to attention, salutes and reports back a brisk: "No maam!" -- although I would disclaim that I'd offered any explanation/model about anything in what you responded to. As long as there are human made ideas put forth to try to explain that which defies explanation, there will be humans to question them....'cause most humans, if they take the time to look can quite easily see a belief system when they encounter it. uh-huh ... and you would reply to what I said with that ... because ..?? ... Read what I wrote without reading in every other conversation on the forum. Read it as it stands, just in it's isolation. I know, I know, you'll say that non-duality is NOT a belief...not a system....but when you get right down to it, it still is a means of explaining wibigo...a story about this. Nonduality points toward the ineffable. You can call that a belief if you want because it's an idea and I'm not writing it to deceive anyone. But the idea itself? Not only do none of the writers on the topic that I've encountered (Tolle, Niz, Adya) invite anyone to believe anything about the idea, but they specifically discourage it. What part of "these ideas are only pointers" don't you understand? I warn you, that last is a trick question!
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