|
Post by silver on Feb 23, 2014 13:26:03 GMT -5
Isn't that a doing? Um, what about that volition thingy? If the guy on the bench insists that he's a rabbit he'll refuse everything brought to nourish him that isn't a carrot. Mmm yeah, thanks Bill, that was really helpful.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Feb 23, 2014 13:27:06 GMT -5
You don't think ZD was sincere in his reply? I assume ZD to be sincere. that he embedded something amusing in what he wrote to you and was also sincere aren't mutually exclusive Hi. Just butting in to say ~ but doesn't ZD say 'ha ha' when he's havin' a little fun?
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 23, 2014 13:27:28 GMT -5
Good non-duality is a cool thing. a classic Andrewism TM. Billy Shakes retorts ... there is no good or bad but that thinking makes it so. Yes, its a good non-dual pointer. I have no problem with it, though I'm not sure Billy appreciates you 'retorting' in his name.
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 23, 2014 13:28:35 GMT -5
You don't think ZD was sincere in his reply? I assume ZD to be sincere. that he embedded something amusing in what he wrote to you and was also sincere aren't mutually exclusive I didn't notice any obvious funning, normally he makes it clear, so I would say you are implying insincerity.
|
|
|
Post by runstill on Feb 23, 2014 13:29:38 GMT -5
The bolded is well worth contemplating, I think when you hear about people that have awaken, laughing at what is seen is precisely because of the obviousness of what is always here.........mind in its innocent ignorance creates its own prison as a mistaken act of self preservation... Isn't that a doing? Um, what about that volition thingy? Don't let resistance to the idea of non volition get in the way, let it simmer off to the side, the big picture is the implications of silence.....
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 23, 2014 13:30:32 GMT -5
So you no longer believe that nondual pointers are deluded products of TMT that suggest some sort of escape to some nothingless something beyond or prior-to mind? If so, that's a change. It depends whose using them and the context in which they are being used. If its a hyperminder that is dependent on the boundary between 'ineffable' and 'effable', I am likely to question the pointers. And you contradict yourself -- you don't have an issue with the pointers, but you do ... and the fact is that the history of the conversation reveals that the narrow context you're claiming for taking that issue isn't really all that narrow. That sort of self-contradiction is the hallmark of hyperminding.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 23, 2014 13:31:04 GMT -5
If the guy on the bench insists that he's a rabbit he'll refuse everything brought to nourish him that isn't a carrot. Mmm yeah, thanks Bill, that was really helpful. If someone takes themselves as a doer, then tell them to do something.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Feb 23, 2014 13:31:37 GMT -5
Isn't that a doing? Um, what about that volition thingy? Don't let resistance to the idea of non volition get in the way, let it simmer off to the side, the big picture is the implications of silence..... How is asking resistance? You've never seen me resist before? Hmm. It was just a gentle query, mr. runstill, sir.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Feb 23, 2014 13:32:30 GMT -5
Mmm yeah, thanks Bill, that was really helpful. If someone takes themselves as a doer, then tell them to do something. That's pretty good!
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 23, 2014 13:36:13 GMT -5
The absence of context is an absence, not a presence. I have no idea what that is supposed to mean You make that clear simply by participating in the conversation. but I would agree that the absence of context is the absence of context. Again you contradict yourself. On multiple points. You're agreeing with something that you first admitted you didn't understand, and the fact is that if you belie your disagreement with these: Yes, that's the non-dual context talking. Well, truths are always contextual, so while its true in one context that there is no two, in the context of there being experiencing, there are two and more experiences. There is no such thing as a "nondual context". The absence of context isn't the presence of anything.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 23, 2014 13:37:37 GMT -5
If someone takes themselves as a doer, then tell them to do something. That's pretty good! Here's a question based on this that strikes me as similar to a Zen koan: if you tell someone that takes themselves as a doer to do something and they eventually see the truth of the matter, did you lie to them?
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 23, 2014 13:39:21 GMT -5
Don't let resistance to the idea of non volition get in the way, let it simmer off to the side, the big picture is the implications of silence..... How is asking resistance? You've never seen me resist before? Hmm. It was just a gentle query, mr. runstill, sir. (** full on conditional muttley snicker **)
|
|
|
Post by silver on Feb 23, 2014 13:39:26 GMT -5
That's pretty good! Here's a question based on this that strikes me as similar to a Zen koan: if you tell someone that takes themselves as a doer to do something and they eventually see the truth of the matter, did you lie to them? There is no lie.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 23, 2014 13:40:30 GMT -5
My guess is that Tolle wouldn't come right out and say "I'm enlightened" but he seems like a likable little gnome and he sure as hell seemed useful to me at one point in time! "Can I have my cake and eat it too?" is only a serious question for someone who'd mistake themselves for what they're not. Do you consider Adya to be useful to you these days? Not in the same sense I was referring to about Tolle, no.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 23, 2014 13:41:30 GMT -5
Here's a question based on this that strikes me as similar to a Zen koan: if you tell someone that takes themselves as a doer to do something and they eventually see the truth of the matter, did you lie to them? There is no lie. Stick with the EFT but don't do no NLPee'in while yer standin' up!
|
|