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Post by laughter on Nov 30, 2013 21:32:31 GMT -5
I've found this video to be simply, profoundly and singularly brilliant:
On one hand, as many folks turn to spiritual ideas out of great pain it's no surprise that some of the conversation around here will be about pain, and the idea of suffering is actually central to several ideas associated with spirituality.
On the other hand, the word that serves as an interesting point of focus in what Gangaji says there is "problem".
Is there a problem?
The conversations here on the site are of course all over the map, but when they turn toward problems, then obviously they don't match a pattern that could be described by "gathering together for the truth" or "being with the truth".
This isn't to express the expectation that there should be more conversation that fits that pattern, it's just an observation on the nature of the conversation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 14:23:04 GMT -5
I've found this video to be simply, profoundly and singularly brilliant: On one hand, as many folks turn to spiritual ideas out of great pain it's no surprise that some of the conversation around here will be about pain, and the idea of suffering is actually central to several ideas associated with spirituality. On the other hand, the word that serves as an interesting point of focus in what Gangaji says there is "problem". Is there a problem? The conversations here on the site are of course all over the map, but when they turn toward problems, then obviously they don't match a pattern that could be described by "gathering together for the truth" or "being with the truth". This isn't to express the expectation that there should be more conversation that fits that pattern, it's just an observation on the nature of the conversation. Gangaji makes the same fundamental misconception of most Non Duality teachers. And that is that there are individuals with choice, free will, and volition to choose to become addicted to Bliss or Suffering... That is a Dualistic teaching and is a nonsense... There is only Freedom manifesting as separate persons with addiction problems... So there isn't anybody who actually owns or has problems...apparently.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2013 19:31:02 GMT -5
I read a book called "Only God Can Give God" wrote by an Enlightened person that said God could and will fix any problems that is in the way of getting enlightened. Anyway i wonder why she thinks God can't fix a persons problems? I think it is because she doesn't care to much. I don't think she's saying that. I think she's saying the focus (in Satsang) needs to be on the truth and not on the personal problems.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 19:49:45 GMT -5
I read a book called "Only God Can Give God" wrote by an Enlightened person that said God could and will fix any problems that is in the way of getting enlightened. Anyway i wonder why she thinks God can't fix a persons problems? I think it is because she doesn't care to much. I don't think she's saying that. I think she's saying the focus (in Satsang) needs to be on the truth and not on the personal problems. Seems to me that she is simply using sage sounding advice to establish some personal preference guidelines for her satsangs....she is probably sick of folks ruining the vibe in the room ;-) She seems to attract some pretty needy clingy folks to her satsangs....if you don't have patience for that kinda thing, or if you are more concerned about 'the show' of the satsang, the pressure of 'fixing' each person's problems could become exhausting, even annoying to certain temperaments, and also, in this litigious age, a 'guru' can become concerned about being sued, hence her advice to seek professional help for your problems and not her...some lawyers may have had something to do with that video ;-) Also, modern 'pay to attend' satsangs are feelgood events...can't have the vibe broken for the other paying customers ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 20:07:35 GMT -5
I don't think she's saying that. I think she's saying the focus (in Satsang) needs to be on the truth and not on the personal problems. Seems to me that she is simply using sage sounding advice to establish some personal preference guidelines for her satsangs....she is probably sick of folks ruining the vibe in the room ;-) She seems to attract some pretty needy clingy folks to her satsangs....if you don't have patience fir that kinda thing, or if you are more concerned about 'the show' of the satsang, needy little birds wanting you to fix their broken wings could get exhausting, especially if not immediately succeeding puts some chinks in your 'enlightened guru' armor ;-) Modern 'pay to attend' satsangs are feelgood events...can't have the vibe broken for the other paying customers ;-) Right, seekers expect to get something, or find something called Truth from the satsangs...and the so called Non-Dual teachers are willing to give it... Seekers don't like to be told that there is no seeker...no teacher...no Truth and Nothing Happening...
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Post by laughter on Dec 1, 2013 20:24:31 GMT -5
Seems to me that she is simply using sage sounding advice to establish some personal preference guidelines for her satsangs....she is probably sick of folks ruining the vibe in the room ;-) She seems to attract some pretty needy clingy folks to her satsangs....if you don't have patience for that kinda thing, or if you are more concerned about 'the show' of the satsang, the pressure of 'fixing' each person's problems could become exhausting, even annoying to certain temperaments, and also, in this litigious age, a 'guru' can become concerned about being sued, hence her advice to seek professional help for your problems and not her...some lawyers may have had something to do with that video ;-) Also, modern 'pay to attend' satsangs are feelgood events...can't have the vibe broken for the other paying customers ;-) I sorta agree. But isn't personal problems in getting enlightened just a matter where someone is on their path or level? In other words if someone comes to you and wants to get enlightened if some personal problem was in the way it would just be another thing that has to be delt with. Enlightened people are suppose to be wise and experts in "personal problems?" She says straight out that she doesn't have the training or expertise to deal with it.
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Post by laughter on Dec 1, 2013 20:31:33 GMT -5
She says straight out that she doesn't have the training or expertise to deal with it. I find it strange that enlightened people have to have training if life matters. I guess anythings possible.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 20:41:45 GMT -5
I sorta agree. But isn't personal problems in getting enlightened just a matter where someone is on their path or level? In other words if someone comes to you and wants to get enlightened if some personal problem was in the way it would just be another thing that has to be delt with. Enlightened people are suppose to be wise and experts in "personal problems?" She says straight out that she doesn't have the training or expertise to deal with it.Thats exactly the kind of thing one's corporate attorney would strongly advise putting out there ;-)....She's a business amongst other things at this point...
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Post by lolly on Dec 1, 2013 23:05:23 GMT -5
I've found this video to be simply, profoundly and singularly brilliant: On one hand, as many folks turn to spiritual ideas out of great pain it's no surprise that some of the conversation around here will be about pain, and the idea of suffering is actually central to several ideas associated with spirituality. On the other hand, the word that serves as an interesting point of focus in what Gangaji says there is "problem". Is there a problem? The conversations here on the site are of course all over the map, but when they turn toward problems, then obviously they don't match a pattern that could be described by "gathering together for the truth" or "being with the truth". This isn't to express the expectation that there should be more conversation that fits that pattern, it's just an observation on the nature of the conversation. Gangaji makes the same fundamental misconception of most Non Duality teachers. And that is that there are individuals with choice, free will, and volition to choose to become addicted to Bliss or Suffering... That is a Dualistic teaching and is a nonsense... There is only Freedom manifesting as separate persons with addiction problems... So there isn't anybody who actually owns or has problems...apparently. You didn't listen very carefully because the video merely served as the platform for what you want to say... and that's a subject which wasn't mentioned in the video at all.
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Post by lolly on Dec 1, 2013 23:11:05 GMT -5
I sorta agree. But isn't personal problems in getting enlightened just a matter where someone is on their path or level? In other words if someone comes to you and wants to get enlightened if some personal problem was in the way it would just be another thing that has to be delt with. Enlightened people are suppose to be wise and experts in "personal problems?" :) She says straight out that she doesn't have the training or expertise to deal with it. It was a very good video, and she really nailed that point home. It's something I often try to express, that enlightenment doesn't qualify anyone in personal problems, counsel, psychology, health and stuff, so I really did enjoy that being said so outrightly by a so called spiritual teacher. Nice.
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Post by lolly on Dec 1, 2013 23:15:05 GMT -5
She says straight out that she doesn't have the training or expertise to deal with it. Thats exactly the kind of thing one's corporate attorney would strongly advise putting out there ;-)....She's a business amongst other things at this point... Good point! What she said was true though. Her reasons were sound too, like the time it takes, for example.
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Post by lolly on Dec 1, 2013 23:23:47 GMT -5
I read a book called "Only God Can Give God" wrote by an Enlightened person that said God could and will fix any problems that is in the way of getting enlightened. Anyway i wonder why she thinks God can't fix a persons problems? I think it is because she doesn't care to much. I don't think she's saying that. I think she's saying the focus (in Satsang) needs to be on the truth and not on the personal problems. Interesting how people frame things in their own light, because I saw the focus as being on what the conversation (with life) is about. If that conversation is about problems, then there's no help for that at the Satsang. I heard her say that her role is 'to point you to the truth of yourself'. That indicates to me that she's on a bit of a mission, and doesn't really have the patience or time to really listen to anyone over time (which she also said). It's actually great to hear it said so plainly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 0:20:43 GMT -5
Gangaji makes the same fundamental misconception of most Non Duality teachers. And that is that there are individuals with choice, free will, and volition to choose to become addicted to Bliss or Suffering... That is a Dualistic teaching and is a nonsense... There is only Freedom manifesting as separate persons with addiction problems... So there isn't anybody who actually owns or has problems...apparently. You didn't listen very carefully because the video merely served as the platform for what you want to say... and that's a subject which wasn't mentioned in the video at all. There is no one with a platform. That would be a contradiction to the reality of Wholeness, of Freedom, of This. Just like there is no you who missed that glaring contradiction in Gangaji's video... Just like there is no seeker that needs help with addictions... It is a nonsense... There is just what's Happening, but it isn't Happening to a some one, to a seeker... And yet the dream of a some one, or seeker is Freedom...hehe
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Post by lolly on Dec 2, 2013 4:12:41 GMT -5
You didn't listen very carefully because the video merely served as the platform for what you want to say... and that's a subject which wasn't mentioned in the video at all. There is no one with a platform. That would be a contradiction to the reality of Wholeness, of Freedom, of This. Just like there is no you who missed that glaring contradiction in Gangaji's video... Just like there is no seeker that needs help with addictions... It is a nonsense... There is just what's Happening, but it isn't Happening to a some one, to a seeker... And yet the dream of a some one, or seeker is Freedom...hehe The addiction is simply observable. People experiencing addiction often need a lot of assistance, a change of environment and most leave a whole life behind them. The addiction is often a self medication that is used to repress deeply troubled parts of the psyche, and although they thought the addiction was bad, what underlies it is often much worse. One would expect their life to improve after the period of cold turkey, but often, ceasing to indulge is the start of the real problem. That's why a person facilitating satsangs, pretending to have answers, is unable to be of any practical assistance in day day life issues. I mean Gangaji has life issues of her own to contend with, much like you or I.
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Post by enigma on Dec 2, 2013 11:28:24 GMT -5
I don't think she's saying that. I think she's saying the focus (in Satsang) needs to be on the truth and not on the personal problems. Interesting how people frame things in their own light, because I saw the focus as being on what the conversation (with life) is about. If that conversation is about problems, then there's no help for that at the Satsang. I heard her say that her role is 'to point you to the truth of yourself'. That indicates to me that she's on a bit of a mission, and doesn't really have the patience or time to really listen to anyone over time (which she also said). It's actually great to hear it said so plainly. Your frame and my frame look pretty much the same to me.
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