|
|
Post by mamza on Jul 27, 2013 0:23:46 GMT -5
"I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want."
I felt this way. No clue what to do, no idea where to go, but somehow there was still this desire for something. What that something was was beyond me, but I think it was just wanting for the sake of wanting. The desire for more, like there's something out there we have yet to get. Shenanigans.
|
|
|
|
Post by topology on Jul 27, 2013 7:31:54 GMT -5
"I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want." I felt this way. No clue what to do, no idea where to go, but somehow there was still this desire for something. What that something was was beyond me, but I think it was just wanting for the sake of wanting. The desire for more, like there's something out there we have yet to get. Shenanigans. do you still feel this way, or are you saying you do not feel this way anymore? |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jul 27, 2013 8:41:43 GMT -5
Is the desire for liberation not egoic from the beginning and how would it change over time ? Should I understand it as becoming desperate enough for surrender to happen? Hi Jazz: Yes, the desire for liberation is inherently egoic. How would it change over time? By turning attention away from thoughts until the one desiring liberation is seen through. Should you understand it as becoming desperate enough for surrender to happen? No, because there is no person behind the desire and therefore no person who can "do" surrendering. If the body/mind keeps shifting attention away from thoughts, the intellect (and its ideas about the one seeking liberation) is ignored. As the body interacts with reality more and more often sans the intellect, the body's natural intelligence ultimately exposes the illusion under which the imaginary seeker labors. All practices and all seeking arise from the idea that there is a someone who needs to get something. That someone is imaginary. Simply turn attention away from thoughts until the cognitively-generated illusion of being a person seeking liberation collapses. |
|
|
|
Post by Ishtahota on Jul 27, 2013 8:50:36 GMT -5
What my heart wants will always liberate me, but my ego tends to put up fears in front of my heart because it knows that if I follow my heart it will some day loose control of this life. My ego also clouds what I want and need with its desires. My ego has me chasing poor reflections of what cold satisfy me. I want to be whole and complete on the inside and my ego has me chasing after a soul mate instead. I want expanded awareness and my ego gives me drugs. So on and so on.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 10:40:40 GMT -5
What my heart wants will always liberate me, but my ego tends to put up fears in front of my heart because it knows that if I follow my heart it will some day loose control of this life. My ego also clouds what I want and need with its desires. My ego has me chasing poor reflections of what cold satisfy me. I want to be whole and complete on the inside and my ego has me chasing after a soul mate instead. I want expanded awareness and my ego gives me drugs. So on and so on. Your lazy carefree friends on the mountain probably see you as being a reasonable man... |
|
|
|
Post by Ishtahota on Jul 27, 2013 11:00:29 GMT -5
What my heart wants will always liberate me, but my ego tends to put up fears in front of my heart because it knows that if I follow my heart it will some day loose control of this life. My ego also clouds what I want and need with its desires. My ego has me chasing poor reflections of what cold satisfy me. I want to be whole and complete on the inside and my ego has me chasing after a soul mate instead. I want expanded awareness and my ego gives me drugs. So on and so on. Your lazy carefree friends on the mountain probably see you as being a reasonable man... I can be hard when I have to be, but I still think fun is part of the mix. Most of the people I deal with are A.A. And N.A. so bulls#it can cost someone there life. |
|
|
|
Post by mamza on Jul 27, 2013 12:25:47 GMT -5
"I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want." I felt this way. No clue what to do, no idea where to go, but somehow there was still this desire for something. What that something was was beyond me, but I think it was just wanting for the sake of wanting. The desire for more, like there's something out there we have yet to get. Shenanigans. do you still feel this way, or are you saying you do not feel this way anymore? It doesn't even really concern me anymore. I still have no idea what to do or where to go, but I've come to accept that as just the way things are. |
|
jazz
Full Member
Posts: 197
|
Post by jazz on Jul 27, 2013 12:51:59 GMT -5
Today, something has shifted. It's so hard to say anything about what it is. It's just a sense of hereness. Not really doing anything except allowing whatever happens to happen. There was an LGBT ceremony and someone gave me an LGBT stamp on the forehead and I was quietly amazed to discover that there was nothing there on the forehead. Lately, Douglas Harding's experiment to point back at myself has been tried and a subtle sense of what he is pointing to is emerging. Not that it ever was absent but kinda noticed to a higer degree now.
|
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jul 27, 2013 15:48:48 GMT -5
do you still feel this way, or are you saying you do not feel this way anymore? ....I still have no idea what to do.... Is that really true? There is head-knowing and body knowing. Did you not body-know what to do when you got out of bed this morning? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 16:21:13 GMT -5
The question is desire to be liberated from what? As for me, I reached a point that I was sick and tired of myself. I wanted to be liberated from myself, without being so drastic as committing suicide, or detaching like a zombie. I just got tired of all my stories -- the victim ones AND the more pleasant ones. Good question. I've asked myself this and the honest answer seems to come from wanting to be free of conflict within. To be at peace with whatever may arise and to live as authentically as possible. I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want. Stop trying to know, knowing is the source of the conflict Let knowing go... Knowing is clinging, clinging is attachment, and attachment is bondage...knowing is bondage |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 16:29:27 GMT -5
"I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want." I felt this way. No clue what to do, no idea where to go, but somehow there was still this desire for something. What that something was was beyond me, but I think it was just wanting for the sake of wanting. The desire for more, like there's something out there we have yet to get. Shenanigans. It seems as though this body/mind is meant for action, too much inaction builds up as an energy that feels like desire even when no desire is identified and chased after....but mentation gets in the way of natural and wholistic action. drop the mentation, and let the body/mind go do it's thing unhindered....You will find that the body/mind that is set free of the mentation "operator" is amazingly energetic and active in a highly efficient way. without the "operator" of the body/mind in the way, doing happens unhindered by a "doer". set aside thinking, knowing, and choosing....and DO be action, not thought |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jul 27, 2013 16:38:45 GMT -5
"I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want." I felt this way. No clue what to do, no idea where to go, but somehow there was still this desire for something. What that something was was beyond me, but I think it was just wanting for the sake of wanting. The desire for more, like there's something out there we have yet to get. Shenanigans. It seems as though this body/mind is meant for action, to much inaction builds up as an energy that feels like desire....but mentation gets in the way of natural and wholistic action. drop the mentation, and let the body/mind go do it's thing unhindered....You will find that the body/mind that is set free of the mentation "operator" is amazingly energetic and active in a highly efficient way. without the "operator" of the body/mind in the way, doing happens unhindered by a "doer". set aside thinking, knowing, and choosing....and DO be action, not thought Good advice, but it probably won't be appreciated without some insight. ZM Seung Sahn used to say, "Just do it!" It was his way of pointing to the same thing. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 16:56:15 GMT -5
It seems as though this body/mind is meant for action, to much inaction builds up as an energy that feels like desire....but mentation gets in the way of natural and wholistic action. drop the mentation, and let the body/mind go do it's thing unhindered....You will find that the body/mind that is set free of the mentation "operator" is amazingly energetic and active in a highly efficient way. without the "operator" of the body/mind in the way, doing happens unhindered by a " doer". set aside thinking, knowing, and choosing.... and DObe action, not thought Good advice, but it probably won't be appreciated without some insight. ZM Seung Sahn used to say, "Just do it!" It was his way of pointing to the same thing. Being is always the case, a doer that can do stuff not so much... If doing it happens, it's because it happens and not because of a doer that does it... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 17:06:15 GMT -5
It seems as though this body/mind is meant for action, to much inaction builds up as an energy that feels like desire....but mentation gets in the way of natural and wholistic action. drop the mentation, and let the body/mind go do it's thing unhindered....You will find that the body/mind that is set free of the mentation "operator" is amazingly energetic and active in a highly efficient way. without the "operator" of the body/mind in the way, doing happens unhindered by a "doer". set aside thinking, knowing, and choosing....and DO be action, not thought Good advice, but it probably won't be appreciated without some insight. ZM Seung Sahn used to say, "Just do it!" It was his way of pointing to the same thing. :-) He also use to say: "Only don't know" and "only go straight" I like that guy ;-) But yes, without insight, it may just be another pointless recommendation Maybe a piece of good advice would be to meditate on "Knowing" and all it's various aspects....and meditate, I mean giving it concentrated attention without mentation....i.e. just observing alertly without added mentation |
|
|
|
Post by mamza on Jul 27, 2013 17:49:44 GMT -5
....I still have no idea what to do.... Is that really true? There is head-knowing and body knowing. Did you not body-know what to do when you got out of bed this morning? It's true from a mental standpoint, not from a physical one. My body knows exactly what to do every moment of every day. Get out of bed->Get clothes->Take shower->eat food->etc. Which body/mind are you referring to as this one? Yours? Mine? Jazz? I'm not sure I recognize the difference between doing with/without an 'operator.' After dinner, I wash the dishes in the sink. Whether I thought beforehand, "I need to wash the dishes" or thought while doing them, "I'm washing dishes," the fact remains that dishes are being done. Am I missing the point? Inaction building up energy that feels like "I gotta do something" makes sense to me. I feel that all the time in short bursts. Said operator can sometimes be approached with an idea of "let's go for a walk" and respond, "That's too boring." More build-up. I can follow that. The exact opposite just happened--I had no energy or build-up and went for a walk. Now I have energy that could use an outlet. Probably going to play guitar now. I have ZM SS's book "Ten Gates" here in front of me and he said, "I hope you only go straight, don't know, which is clear like space...." a lot. The part about space made me laugh a lot. |
|
