jazz
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Posts: 197
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Post by jazz on Jul 26, 2013 18:54:17 GMT -5
Along the way on the spiritual path teachers tell you to increase your desire for liberation. At the same time, it is said to be a hindrance to desire it. "Give up the search, there's nothing to get", etc etc. As I understand it, renounce ALL desire except the desire for liberation. Is the desire for liberation not egoic from the beginning and how would it change over time ? Should I understand it as becoming desperate enough for surrender to happen? Any thougts and experiences on this? Thank you  |
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Post by silence on Jul 26, 2013 19:14:22 GMT -5
Losing interest and desperation are typically the two catalysts to surrender. It doesn't matter if one is rehashing spiritual books or drowning themselves in a bottle. It's the same desire to be liberated from reality as it is really happening. Nobody is showing up to a spiritual teacher with nothing in mind and so all that's happening is the teacher relentlessly pointing away from what they bring to the table.
When you actually realize that a spiritual teacher literally has nothing to offer you, their words will be like dust in the wind. There is no alternative to finding your own conviction and authority.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 26, 2013 19:17:46 GMT -5
Greetings.. Along the way on the spiritual path teachers tell you to increase your desire for liberation. At the same time, it is said to be a hindrance to desire it. "Give up the search, there's nothing to get", etc etc. As I understand it, renounce ALL desire except the desire for liberation. Is the desire for liberation not egoic from the beginning and how would it change over time ? Should I understand it as becoming desperate enough for surrender to happen? Any thougts and experiences on this? Thank you Rather than 'desire', i sense that liberation in a naturally inherent motivation that is revealed as the obstacles to clarity are discarded.. 'renouncing all desire', is a conflict that need not be waged, 'desire' is a natural condition that need only be understood for what it 'is', then it can no longer control the experiencer.. Be well.. |
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Post by silence on Jul 26, 2013 19:21:20 GMT -5
'renouncing all desire', is a conflict that need not be waged, Agreed. It's the classic and perfect example of self deception. It is the desire to be desire-less. |
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 26, 2013 19:30:49 GMT -5
Along the way on the spiritual path teachers tell you to increase your desire for liberation. At the same time, it is said to be a hindrance to desire it. "Give up the search, there's nothing to get", etc etc. As I understand it, renounce ALL desire except the desire for liberation. Is the desire for liberation not egoic from the beginning and how would it change over time ? Should I understand it as becoming desperate enough for surrender to happen? Any thougts and experiences on this? Thank you The question is desire to be liberated from what? As for me, I reached a point that I was sick and tired of myself. I wanted to be liberated from myself, without being so drastic as committing suicide, or detaching like a zombie. I just got tired of all my stories -- the victim ones AND the more pleasant ones. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 26, 2013 19:41:16 GMT -5
Greetings.. Along the way on the spiritual path teachers tell you to increase your desire for liberation. At the same time, it is said to be a hindrance to desire it. "Give up the search, there's nothing to get", etc etc. As I understand it, renounce ALL desire except the desire for liberation. Is the desire for liberation not egoic from the beginning and how would it change over time ? Should I understand it as becoming desperate enough for surrender to happen? Any thougts and experiences on this? Thank you The question is desire to be liberated from what? As for me, I reached a point that I was sick and tired of myself. I wanted to be liberated from myself, without being so drastic as committing suicide, or detaching like a zombie. I just got tired of all my stories -- the victim ones AND the more pleasant ones. Hi SQ: From my own perspective, the 'from what' is attachments.. arriving at the place where it is clear that attachment is the obstacle to fluid dynamism, aware that attachment interrupts the 'flow' of Life happening.. no one can be liberated from themselves, but they can arrive at clarity and 'integrate with' the flow of Life happening.. Be well.. |
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jazz
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Posts: 197
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Post by jazz on Jul 26, 2013 19:42:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. Along the way on the spiritual path teachers tell you to increase your desire for liberation. At the same time, it is said to be a hindrance to desire it. "Give up the search, there's nothing to get", etc etc. As I understand it, renounce ALL desire except the desire for liberation. Is the desire for liberation not egoic from the beginning and how would it change over time ? Should I understand it as becoming desperate enough for surrender to happen? Any thougts and experiences on this? Thank you Rather than 'desire', i sense that liberation in a naturally inherent motivation that is revealed as the obstacles to clarity are discarded.. 'renouncing all desire', is a conflict that need not be waged, 'desire' is a natural condition that need only be understood for what it 'is', then it can no longer control the experiencer.. Be well.. Yeah. There has been little desire to be desireless here, to be honest. Seeing through them as seperateness seems to work better and I'm not imagining to become free of desire as such, rather, not to be conflicted by them. |
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jazz
Full Member
Posts: 197
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Post by jazz on Jul 26, 2013 19:50:43 GMT -5
Along the way on the spiritual path teachers tell you to increase your desire for liberation. At the same time, it is said to be a hindrance to desire it. "Give up the search, there's nothing to get", etc etc. As I understand it, renounce ALL desire except the desire for liberation. Is the desire for liberation not egoic from the beginning and how would it change over time ? Should I understand it as becoming desperate enough for surrender to happen? Any thougts and experiences on this? Thank you The question is desire to be liberated from what? As for me, I reached a point that I was sick and tired of myself. I wanted to be liberated from myself, without being so drastic as committing suicide, or detaching like a zombie. I just got tired of all my stories -- the victim ones AND the more pleasant ones. Good question. I've asked myself this and the honest answer seems to come from wanting to be free of conflict within. To be at peace with whatever may arise and to live as authentically as possible. I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2013 20:41:36 GMT -5
The question is desire to be liberated from what? As for me, I reached a point that I was sick and tired of myself. I wanted to be liberated from myself, without being so drastic as committing suicide, or detaching like a zombie. I just got tired of all my stories -- the victim ones AND the more pleasant ones. Good question. I've asked myself this and the honest answer seems to come from wanting to be free of conflict within. To be at peace with whatever may arise and to live as authentically as possible. I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want. What we are is perceivers, we are awareness... We are not objects... we have no solidity. We are boundless. The attention fixates on reason and forgets the boundless witness that we are and thus we are entrapped in a vicious circle from which we rarely emerge. "I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want" is the awareness entrapped by reason. Everything arises in front of you and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it, but reason can...do something about it that is... |
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 26, 2013 21:33:13 GMT -5
Greetings.. Good question. I've asked myself this and the honest answer seems to come from wanting to be free of conflict within. To be at peace with whatever may arise and to live as authentically as possible. I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want. What we are is perceivers, we are awareness... We are not objects... we have no solidity. We are boundless. The attention fixates on reason and forgets the boundless witness that we are and thus we are entrapped in a vicious circle from which we rarely emerge. "I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want" is the awareness entrapped by reason. Everything arises in front of you and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it, but reason can...do something about it that is... We are not awareness.. awareness is the vehicle through we are informed, it an attribute of what we 'are'.. Be well.. |
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Post by earnest on Jul 26, 2013 21:55:05 GMT -5
Greetings.. What we are is perceivers, we are awareness... We are not objects... we have no solidity. We are boundless. The attention fixates on reason and forgets the boundless witness that we are and thus we are entrapped in a vicious circle from which we rarely emerge. "I don't know what I want and I want to know what I want" is the awareness entrapped by reason. Everything arises in front of you and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it, but reason can...do something about it that is... We are not awareness.. awareness is the vehicle through we are informed, it an attribute of what we 'are'.. Be well.. hi Tzu, have you got any references (teachers, scripture, sutras etc) that talk about what we are? Thanks. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 26, 2013 22:33:22 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. We are not awareness.. awareness is the vehicle through we are informed, it an attribute of what we 'are'.. Be well.. hi Tzu, have you got any references (teachers, scripture, sutras etc) that talk about what we are? Thanks. Yes.. Be well.. |
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Post by earnest on Jul 26, 2013 22:44:32 GMT -5
Greetings.. hi Tzu, have you got any references (teachers, scripture, sutras etc) that talk about what we are? Thanks. Yes.. Be well.. could you share them please. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 26, 2013 23:34:35 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Yes.. Be well.. could you share them please. Yes.. tomorrow, as it is late here and i have an early class.. i'll PM you with the info.. Be well.. |
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Post by earnest on Jul 26, 2013 23:46:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. could you share them please. Yes.. tomorrow, as it is late here and i have an early class.. i'll PM you with the info.. Be well.. ok ta |
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