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Post by tzujanli on Jul 3, 2013 18:40:52 GMT -5
Greetings.. Hi justlikeyou, Understood, thanks. "I only know that I had a first memory because I was there prior to it, otherwise how could I have witnessed it when it arose? You may be mixing up the idea of ego with mind. Mind is not who I am, but mind is essential to who I am living and navigating this life". In one scenario, it is mind that is aware of Ego for it constructed and monitors it for its effectiveness in dealing with threats. In this view, without those threats there would be no Ego, no defensive separate character whatsoever. The mind would have no need to construct the Ego. It can easily be seen why the mind arranges for its construction (Ego) to be unaware of the events that led to its construction. If the Ego admits to those events the defense is weakened because the memorized responses are seen as a mere fictional construction for defensive purposes. The allegation "You are just being defensive" is always denied for that reason. amit Mind doesn't construct anything. Ego is a subset of thoughts included in what we call mind. Ego is part of mind. Mind is not an entity, not conscious. You are conscious. When you think, this is called mind. You are the one who constructs ego. Even when you don't think, mind is the medium upon which information/imagery is revealed in a format that can be understood in relation to what 'is'.. the unique history of 'you' is present in 'mind', the illusion/ego is to 'build' something other than what actually represents who/what you 'are', your intentions.. Be well..
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Post by earnest on Jul 3, 2013 19:13:29 GMT -5
I rarely insult people, but you are indulging in a story that you obviously enjoy, and you have gotten strongly attached to it. If you asked me for advice, which you haven't, I would tell you to forget about enlightenment--that the point of this pathless path is primarily about becoming free of the mind rather than attaining some imaginatively wondrous state. You obviously love your ideas, so you have no real interest in leaving them behind. By contrast, people who want to know the truth are willing to give up everything to find it, and that includes everything that they know. On this path it helps to have a "beginner's mind," and to realize that you know nothing of any importance. Only when the mind is open can anything new be learned. Are you willing to let go of all your ideas? I doubt it. Bobby, I didn't ask you for advice. Please don't patronize and analize me. Thank you. If you really believe your accusations about me, then you wouldn't have replied to me, unless of course you enjoy insulting people, which makes me doubt that you insult people "rarely". It seems to me that it is you who is strongly attached to ideas and is in love with his own narrative. You don't allow criticism, instead you just accuse the other of being stuck in mind. If such is your attitude then a dialogue is not possible. You say that people who want to participate in what you think is true have to be willing to give up everything. I have never in my entire life met a person who is willing to give up everything for some unknown and suspected-to-exist "truth". It is an impossible ideal, and if you truly believe in it then I strongly suspect that it's nothing more than a defense mechnism for your theory of ATA. Normal people are rational, they would correctly reject your equation, and if such a mad drive is a requirement for the success of ATA then you might aswell admit that ATA doesn't work. Been a while since I posted, but I thought I'd jump in as ATA is close to my heart. In fact my first post here was asking what the mysterious ATA stood for Attending to what's actually happening has been liberating. I don't feel like going into the details too much at the moment, but what I found was in attending to what was happening, it became increasingly apparent that things arise and pass away, and that this happens within some/no-thing. Then this background no-thing popped into the foreground. Experiences of silence in the midst of "stuff" flipped to stuff arising and passing away in the silence. That was all,.. and it was more than enough.
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Post by enigma on Jul 3, 2013 22:05:24 GMT -5
Mind doesn't construct anything. Ego is a subset of thoughts included in what we call mind. Ego is part of mind. Mind is not an entity, not conscious. You are conscious. When you think, this is called mind. You are the one who constructs ego. E, is the "you" who is conscious, who thinks, who constructs ego, a figure of speech? What where? Old subject I know, but still a lot of confusion about that stuff over here. Well, it's consciousness itself. I like to call it intelligence. Consciousness knows of mind, and engages it or not, more as a tool. Mind can almost be viewed as another sense. In any event, mind has no consciousness of it's own and doesn't do diddly. Neither does ego. You (consciousness) activate thought, form ego, delude yourself, etc.
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Post by enigma on Jul 3, 2013 22:11:15 GMT -5
Greetings.. Mind doesn't construct anything. Ego is a subset of thoughts included in what we call mind. Ego is part of mind. Mind is not an entity, not conscious. You are conscious. When you think, this is called mind. You are the one who constructs ego. Even when you don't think, mind is the medium upon which information/imagery is revealed in a format that can be understood in relation to what 'is'.. the unique history of 'you' is present in 'mind', the illusion/ego is to 'build' something other than what actually represents who/what you 'are', your intentions.. Be well.. That sounds confusing. I'm not sure what sort of understanding can happen without thought. The ego IS the 'you' to which you refer. "Unique history" is all it is. Ego is the story of 'you', and yes, it is illusion.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 3, 2013 23:34:13 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Even when you don't think, mind is the medium upon which information/imagery is revealed in a format that can be understood in relation to what 'is'.. the unique history of 'you' is present in 'mind', the illusion/ego is to 'build' something other than what actually represents who/what you 'are', your intentions.. Be well.. That sounds confusing. I'm not sure what sort of understanding can happen without thought. The ego IS the 'you' to which you refer. "Unique history" is all it is. Ego is the story of 'you', and yes, it is illusion. Of course it sounds confusing to 'you', you believe "it's all imagination", which leaves your claim that the person is an 'illusion' as another of your imagined beliefs.. as for 'ego', that too is an imagined concept.. you might be interested in settling that imagination of yours down, and trying a bit of clarity.. i'm sure it's scary for guys like you, letting go of your beliefs, but.. it's so much better than trying to explain all of those contradictions and inconsistencies inherent in your imagined beliefs.. give it try, just 'let go' of all those attachments and beliefs, just look and see what's actually happening.. Be well..
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Post by amit on Jul 4, 2013 2:06:31 GMT -5
Hi justlikeyou, Understood, thanks. "I only know that I had a first memory because I was there prior to it, otherwise how could I have witnessed it when it arose? You may be mixing up the idea of ego with mind. Mind is not who I am, but mind is essential to who I am living and navigating this life". In one scenario, it is mind that is aware of Ego for it constructed and monitors it for its effectiveness in dealing with threats. In this view, without those threats there would be no Ego, no defensive separate character whatsoever. The mind would have no need to construct the Ego. It can easily be seen why the mind arranges for its construction (Ego) to be unaware of the events that led to its construction. If the Ego admits to those events the defense is weakened because the memorized responses are seen as a mere fictional construction for defensive purposes. The allegation "You are just being defensive" is always denied for that reason. amit Mind doesn't construct anything. Ego is a subset of thoughts included in what we call mind. Ego is part of mind. Mind is not an entity, not conscious. You are conscious. When you think, this is called mind. You are the one who constructs ego. Hi enigma, What is that "You" You are talking about? and whose talking about it? amit
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Post by laughter on Jul 4, 2013 6:27:21 GMT -5
Bobby, I didn't ask you for advice. Please don't patronize and analize me. Thank you. If you really believe your accusations about me, then you wouldn't have replied to me, unless of course you enjoy insulting people, which makes me doubt that you insult people "rarely". It seems to me that it is you who is strongly attached to ideas and is in love with his own narrative. You don't allow criticism, instead you just accuse the other of being stuck in mind. If such is your attitude then a dialogue is not possible. You say that people who want to participate in what you think is true have to be willing to give up everything. I have never in my entire life met a person who is willing to give up everything for some unknown and suspected-to-exist "truth". It is an impossible ideal, and if you truly believe in it then I strongly suspect that it's nothing more than a defense mechnism for your theory of ATA. Normal people are rational, they would correctly reject your equation, and if such a mad drive is a requirement for the success of ATA then you might aswell admit that ATA doesn't work. Been a while since I posted, but I thought I'd jump in as ATA is close to my heart. In fact my first post here was asking what the mysterious ATA stood for Attending to what's actually happening has been liberating. I don't feel like going into the details too much at the moment, but what I found was in attending to what was happening, it became increasingly apparent that things arise and pass away, and that this happens within some/no-thing. Then this background no-thing popped into the foreground. Experiences of silence in the midst of "stuff" flipped to stuff arising and passing away in the silence. That was all,.. and it was more than enough. Thanks for the update earnest.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 4, 2013 6:36:49 GMT -5
Been a while since I posted, but I thought I'd jump in as ATA is close to my heart. In fact my first post here was asking what the mysterious ATA stood for Attending to what's actually happening has been liberating. I don't feel like going into the details too much at the moment, but what I found was in attending to what was happening, it became increasingly apparent that things arise and pass away, and that this happens within some/no-thing. Then this background no-thing popped into the foreground. Experiences of silence in the midst of "stuff" flipped to stuff arising and passing away in the silence. That was all,.. and it was more than enough. You got lucky. I've been trying ATA for a long time and nothing ever happened.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 4, 2013 7:36:12 GMT -5
Been a while since I posted, but I thought I'd jump in as ATA is close to my heart. In fact my first post here was asking what the mysterious ATA stood for Attending to what's actually happening has been liberating. I don't feel like going into the details too much at the moment, but what I found was in attending to what was happening, it became increasingly apparent that things arise and pass away, and that this happens within some/no-thing. Then this background no-thing popped into the foreground. Experiences of silence in the midst of "stuff" flipped to stuff arising and passing away in the silence. That was all,.. and it was more than enough. You got lucky. I've been trying ATA for a long time and nothing ever happened. Countless people are living in abject slavery to the non-stop voice in the head with its incessant voicing of all manner of voice-thoughts that the person themselves have absolutely no control over. It is often a severe and condemning voice that produce feelings of inadequacy and horrible guilt. It drives millions and millions to drink and drugs for relief. Jails, Institutions and Psychiatrist offices everywhere are filled with such as these, but rarely do they find, or are they directed to, the only place where true relief can be found...the Present Moment. Teach a man to pay attention to what is...or to, for example, notice the space between objects, or even now, to the space between his eyes and the monitor he reads these words upon, and the mind stops cold. The relief one experiences is dramatic, especially in the beginning, and the more one practices such a practice, his ability to separate from his mind and come to stillness grows. But is this enough to cure him of bondage to thinking? Not directly, but it does bring enough separation from thought, inner stillness and peace to help him to eventually realize and align with his True Nature, which is Stillness...Freedom Itself. An agitated mind can never come to realize anything but agitation. So, practices that still the mind are more than useful. They are essential to making the way to Freedom possible, in the same way that the road to the Golden Kingdom is essential. But once you get there, all roads become unnecessary.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 4, 2013 7:45:46 GMT -5
Experience tells me that I am other than my history and conditioning. In fact, I am who I am before I knew a single word or had a first memory. I only know that I had a first memory because I was there prior to it, otherwise how could I have witnessed it when it arose? Is this a conclusion or an experience or both or something other? Hi Max, In order to witness anything you would have to be there prior to the event in order to witness it. Can you observe a sunrise if you are not there before it rises? If you have a first memory, say of your mother changing your diaper or something, wouldn't you have had to have been there prior to the event so that you could witness and remember it?
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 4, 2013 7:56:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure what sort of understanding can happen without thought. Understanding is often wordless. The man walking down a sidewalk does not have to think at all about walking around a big pothole. Seeing alone informs him. There is a wordless, and therefore non-thinking way of understanding many things. When the light comes on the truth about the snake being just a piece of rope is clearly seen. Words, therefore thinking about it, are not required to realize this truth.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 4, 2013 8:12:04 GMT -5
You got lucky. I've been trying ATA for a long time and nothing ever happened. Countless people are living in abject slavery to the non-stop voice in the head with its incessant voicing of all manner of voice-thoughts that the person themselves have absolutely no control over. It is often a severe and condemning voice that produce feelings of inadequacy and horrible guilt. It drives millions and millions to drink and drugs for relief. Jails, Institutions and Psychiatrist offices everywhere are filled with such as these, but rarely do they find, or are they directed to, the only place where true relief can be found...the Present Moment. Teach a man to pay attention to what is...or to, for example, notice the space between objects, or even now, to the space between his eyes and the monitor he reads these words upon, and the mind stops cold. The relief one experiences is dramatic, especially in the beginning, and the more one practices such a practice, his ability to separate from his mind and come to stillness grows. But is this enough to cure him of bondage to thinking? Not directly, but it does bring enough separation from thought, inner stillness and peace to help him to eventually realize and align with his True Nature, which is Stillness...Freedom Itself. An agitated mind can never come to realize anything but agitation. So, practices that still the mind are more than useful. They are essential to making the way to Freedom possible, in the same way that the road to the Golden Kingdom is essential. But once you get there, all roads become unnecessary. I've simply reported that ATA did not work for me even though I practised it for a long time and that Earnest probably just got lucky. What does your wall of text have to do with my comment?
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Post by laughter on Jul 4, 2013 8:20:31 GMT -5
Been a while since I posted, but I thought I'd jump in as ATA is close to my heart. In fact my first post here was asking what the mysterious ATA stood for Attending to what's actually happening has been liberating. I don't feel like going into the details too much at the moment, but what I found was in attending to what was happening, it became increasingly apparent that things arise and pass away, and that this happens within some/no-thing. Then this background no-thing popped into the foreground. Experiences of silence in the midst of "stuff" flipped to stuff arising and passing away in the silence. That was all,.. and it was more than enough. You got lucky. I've been trying ATA for a long time and nothing ever happened. Luck, grace ... whatever. Trick is to play the short odds Bambi. The rational, thinking, reasoning mind has a proven track record of being the worst bookmaker in the biz. Clickity-clack man!
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 4, 2013 8:37:50 GMT -5
You got lucky. I've been trying ATA for a long time and nothing ever happened. Luck, grace ... whatever. Trick is to play the short odds Bambi. The rational, thinking, reasoning mind has a proven track record of being the worst bookmaker in the biz. Clickity-clack man! Yawn, same old anti-intellectual attitude. Them enlightened folks sure do have a lot of thoughts to share despite allegedly having transcended mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2013 8:57:25 GMT -5
You got lucky. I've been trying ATA for a long time and nothing ever happened. Luck, grace ... whatever. Trick is to play the short odds Bambi. The rational, thinking, reasoning mind has a proven track record of being the worst bookmaker in the biz. Clickity-clack man! But, the mind expresses its power through attention and intention. We're carving up wholeness again. Mind Body Spirit
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