|
Post by tzujanli on Jul 5, 2013 22:42:30 GMT -5
Greetings.. I don't know what he meant by that. If a projection 'manifests', it is believed to be a truth about another 'by definition'. A projection is never recognized as such by the projector when it is projected. To be conscious of a projection is to withdraw it and cease projecting. This is the value in recognizing them. They're like mushrooms that can only grow in the dark. That's what I thought, like you said projections can be dropped if we want... The tell for the unconscious tendencies to project are often preceded by negative thoughts and/or feelings. Y'all are way over-thinking this.. it's really simple, just look and see.. but, you're 'thinkin' you're qualified to play psychologist/analyst, and you're not.. here's what i 'see', a whole lot of thinking y'all know more than others, especially those that disagree with you.. have you noticed how it is those that disagree with you that have the 'issues' that you feel qualified to analyze and criticize and provoke? i've even noticed that when there's nobody disagreeing with the analysts, they turn on each other, it's just their nature to try to create the illusions that they are superior.. now, if all that was happening was that people were looking and seeing and discussing what they see, rather than what they 'think' they see.. we would be talking about some way more interesting and productive stuff.. but, that might imply that the analysts were actually equal with everybody else, so.. well, just watch.. Be well..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 23:01:29 GMT -5
Greetings.. That's what I thought, like you said projections can be dropped if we want... The tell for the unconscious tendencies to project are often preceded by negative thoughts and/or feelings. Y'all are way over-thinking this.. it's really simple, just look and see.. but, you're 'thinkin' you're qualified to play psychologist/analyst, and you're not.. here's what i 'see', a whole lot of thinking y'all know more than others, especially those that disagree with you.. have you noticed how it is those that disagree with you that have the 'issues' that you feel qualified to analyze and criticize and provoke? i've even noticed that when there's nobody disagreeing with the analysts, they turn on each other, it's just their nature to try to create the illusions that they are superior.. now, if all that was happening was that people were looking and seeing and discussing what they see, rather than what they 'think' they see.. we would be talking about some way more interesting and productive stuff.. but, that might imply that the analysts were actually equal with everybody else, so.. well, just watch.. Be well.. I'm looking and seeing words on a computer screen... Is that the more interesting and productive stuff you want to talk about? I'd rather talk about verbal diarrhea... ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png)
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 0:03:40 GMT -5
Why do you think he couldn't lie and why do you think he couldn't get away with it? What I don't trust is Tzu's ability to perceive anything accurately, which is to say consciously and without heavy filtering and bias. Ironically, this is his major complaint about others, which is what makes him the Prince of projection. I'm not saying he couldn't lie and think he could get away with it, In fact, that IS what you said. You don't think it makes sense to want to be the calm sounding character rather than the annoying, agressive sounding one? I didn't hear Tzu say he doesn't trust me, though we could probly glean that much. I speculate he engages because he likes being the annoying, agressive character.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Jul 6, 2013 0:10:43 GMT -5
I'm not saying he couldn't lie and think he could get away with it, In fact, that IS what you said. You don't think it makes sense to want to be the calm sounding character rather than the annoying, agressive sounding one? I didn't hear Tzu say he doesn't trust me, though we could probly glean that much. I speculate he engages because he likes being the annoying, agressive character. ///////I suppose I shouldn't make such assumptions, but that's how I feel, but trust isn't the issue, I'm sure he'd say that and more..///////
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 0:11:49 GMT -5
I don't know what he meant by that. If a projection 'manifests', it is believed to be a truth about another 'by definition'. A projection is never recognized as such by the projector when it is projected. To be conscious of a projection is to withdraw it and cease projecting. This is the value in recognizing them. They're like mushrooms that can only grow in the dark. That's what I thought, like you said projections can be dropped if we want... The tell for the unconscious tendencies to project are often preceded by negative thoughts and/or feelings. Yes, that's true. It's surprising how little issue we have with others who aren't showing us something about ourselves we don't want to see. We can be amazed or entertained or confused, but to be personally offended is a telling response?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 0:19:24 GMT -5
Greetings.. Why do you think he couldn't lie and why do you think he couldn't get away with it? What I don't trust is Tzu's ability to perceive anything accurately, which is to say consciously and without heavy filtering and bias. Ironically, this is his major complaint about others, which is what makes him the Prince of projection. LOL.. you will create the illusions that serve your beliefs.. You have not, yet, demonstrated the ability to see anything clearly, including your own self-deceptions.. you cannot just look and see, you always look and see your beliefs.. you create illusions about 'Tzu', because you want to be 'right'.. all 'Tzu' asks is for people to see clearly, it is 'you' that is telling people what they should see with word-games, telling people what "truth" is.. i'm not telling anyone what 'truth' is, but i can easily identify what "truth" is not.. "oneness" is not 'truth', it IS an idea, a belief, a description.. and, you are so attached to your beliefs that that you disregard clarity.. Be well.. Yes, and since virtually everything you say is a projection, it is yourself that you are asking to see clearly. It's very difficult for folks to believe that could be telling others something about themselves that they don't consciously know, but that's how it works. Mind never actually succeeds in deceiving itself as this would be a logical impossibility, but it can and does pretend like nobody's biznis.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 0:33:22 GMT -5
, In fact, that IS what you said. This is what I said: "I don't think he could knowingly lie about his own voice and feel as though he could get away with it." "I'm not saying he couldn't lie and think he could get away with it" Ooookay, then. I think I'm done. ![O_o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/browraise.png)
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Jul 6, 2013 2:34:16 GMT -5
What I've encountered in the year+ I've been hangin' 'round here is the conclusion that the person has exactly 0, null, zip, nada, zilch and void as far as the capacity to be honest is concerned. If you refer to self honesty, I agree. "... and it must follow as the night the day ..."
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Jul 6, 2013 2:36:01 GMT -5
Greetings.. What I've encountered in the year+ I've been hangin' 'round here is the conclusion that the person has exactly 0, null, zip, nada, zilch and void as far as the capacity to be honest is concerned. What i've noticed is that most 'conclusions' are structured by the desire to avoid seeing what is actually happening.. very few persons pretending to not be persons are interested in seeing what is actually happening.. Be well.. Pretension is, in a sense, a sort of tragedy.
|
|
|
Post by tzujanli on Jul 6, 2013 5:50:56 GMT -5
Greetings.. I'm not saying he couldn't lie and think he could get away with it, In fact, that IS what you said. You don't think it makes sense to want to be the calm sounding character rather than the annoying, agressive sounding one? I didn't hear Tzu say he doesn't trust me, though we could probly glean that much. I speculate he engages because he likes being the annoying, agressive character. Whatever you believe about my intentions, the illusion you are trying to create speaks directly to your understanding of honesty.. in the same way that JLY cast the characters to represent his beliefs 'about' the characters, you cannot control your own beliefs, you cannot see clearly and so the judgments and choices you make are controlled by your beliefs, including your belief that "oneness is truth".. such that any challenge to that belief must be defeated rather than examined honestly on its merits.. you have spent years trying to defeat the challenge rather than honestly examine it.. part of your 'defense' is to try to destroy the messenger, rather than engage the message.. this is what is actually happening.. Be well..
|
|
|
Post by justlikeyou on Jul 6, 2013 7:33:55 GMT -5
Fair enough overall, however, I wouldn't go so far as to say there are absolutely no rules. I was a cop for 8 years. I've dealt with all kinds. When it comes to the ego there are some definite "principles" in operation. Understanding them or not can help or hinder ones attempt to break through. That's all. There are definitely 'rules' to manipulating and controlling ego. I took it to mean there are no rules when it comes to getting a spearachual message across. IOW, ego getting excited doesn't mean nothing is happening, and keeping it calm isn't the top priority in this case. I don't know. Freedom is a universal principle and I think it is possible to violate another beings Freedom. "Do no harm" seems to be another universal law. But ego wise there is hidden a very profound and powerful principle of "egoic penetration" in Jesus statement "resist not evil, overcome it with good". Also when the student was told by the Master that "When a man comes at you with a stick there are three ways to deal with him; run, fight or take his stick away" he too is pointing to a similar such principle. Because for the sage, every single encounter is a spiritual negotiation, knowingly or unknowingly, spoken or unspoken.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 9:58:59 GMT -5
If you refer to self honesty, I agree. "... and it must follow as the night the day ..." Yes.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 10:09:30 GMT -5
There are definitely 'rules' to manipulating and controlling ego. I took it to mean there are no rules when it comes to getting a spearachual message across. IOW, ego getting excited doesn't mean nothing is happening, and keeping it calm isn't the top priority in this case. I don't know. Freedom is a universal principle and I think it is possible to violate another beings Freedom. "Do no harm" seems to be another universal law. But ego wise there is hidden a very profound and powerful principle of "egoic penetration" in Jesus statement "resist not evil, overcome it with good". Also when the student was told by the Master that "When a man comes at you with a stick there are three ways to deal with him; run, fight or take his stick away" he too is pointing to a similar such principle. Because for the sage, every single encounter is a spiritual negotiation, knowingly or unknowingly, spoken or unspoken. I'm not sure what the bottom line is here. Where do you see freedom being violated, harm being done and evil being resisted? Or is all this hypotheoretical?
|
|
|
Post by silence on Jul 6, 2013 10:09:43 GMT -5
Greetings.. That's what I thought, like you said projections can be dropped if we want... The tell for the unconscious tendencies to project are often preceded by negative thoughts and/or feelings. Y'all are way over-thinking this.. it's really simple, just look and see.. but, you're 'thinkin' you're qualified to play psychologist/analyst, and you're not.. here's what i 'see', a whole lot of thinking y'all know more than others, especially those that disagree with you.. have you noticed how it is those that disagree with you that have the 'issues' that you feel qualified to analyze and criticize and provoke? i've even noticed that when there's nobody disagreeing with the analysts, they turn on each other, it's just their nature to try to create the illusions that they are superior.. now, if all that was happening was that people were looking and seeing and discussing what they see, rather than what they 'think' they see.. we would be talking about some way more interesting and productive stuff.. but, that might imply that the analysts were actually equal with everybody else, so.. well, just watch.. Be well.. The superiority thing has been endlessly pointed out to you. You've placed yourself up on the Tzu pedestal of still mind clarity while everyone else is too addicted to reporting beliefs.
|
|
|
Post by silence on Jul 6, 2013 10:16:13 GMT -5
Greetings.. In fact, that IS what you said. You don't think it makes sense to want to be the calm sounding character rather than the annoying, agressive sounding one? I didn't hear Tzu say he doesn't trust me, though we could probly glean that much. I speculate he engages because he likes being the annoying, agressive character. Whatever you believe about my intentions, the illusion you are trying to create speaks directly to your understanding of honesty.. in the same way that JLY cast the characters to represent his beliefs 'about' the characters, you cannot control your own beliefs, you cannot see clearly and so the judgments and choices you make are controlled by your beliefs, including your belief that "oneness is truth".. such that any challenge to that belief must be defeated rather than examined honestly on its merits.. you have spent years trying to defeat the challenge rather than honestly examine it.. part of your 'defense' is to try to destroy the messenger, rather than engage the message.. this is what is actually happening.. Be well.. There's your superiority complex again.
|
|