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Post by silver on Jul 5, 2013 15:45:27 GMT -5
I don't think it's wise to trust one's own judgment, especially when there's a sizeable dispute going on, also. You're going to advocate for wisdom now? hey - what's that supposed to mean?
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Post by laughter on Jul 5, 2013 15:45:43 GMT -5
We've been over this before, and you and Tzu' didn't like the answer one bit. I don't see a battle. I don't see a war. I don't see sides. There is no battlefield here with me. Even when I step over into Tzu's dojo, the only weapon I carry is wryness. But this is the 4th time you have diverted the question in front of you: do you see Tzu's interactions with those he interacts with as generally peaceful or not? Forget about E', my question is about Tzu. No, I only see him disagreeing. It's words on a page. Do 'we' really know if he's all worked up over this? That would be a sign of a less than peaceful attitude. I don't see him being particularly worked up, tbh.. Uh yeah ... ok ... me an Reefsy could have a field day with that dumptster dive, lemme tells ya'!
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Post by laughter on Jul 5, 2013 15:47:51 GMT -5
You're going to advocate for wisdom now? hey - what's that supposed to mean? Wisdom are words to live by ... your general presentation here has seemed to me to be counter to that ... unless you've got some hidden creed that you're following and haven't been sharing with us ...
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Post by laughter on Jul 5, 2013 15:55:33 GMT -5
yu ... er, I mean ... nope! Right, the person can't be right either. Hehe. What I've encountered in the year+ I've been hangin' 'round here is the conclusion that the person has exactly 0, null, zip, nada, zilch and void as far as the capacity to be honest is concerned.
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Post by silver on Jul 5, 2013 16:05:48 GMT -5
hey - what's that supposed to mean? Wisdom are words to live by ... your general presentation here has seemed to me to be counter to that ... unless you've got some hidden creed that you're following and haven't been sharing with us ...
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 5, 2013 16:05:51 GMT -5
I'm not telling you that you shouldn't speak your truth in any given moment. God forbid! I am speaking about what comes after that initial speaking. Is there agreement or denial? Are your words accepted or rejected? Are they appreciated or turned into a verbal bat to club you over the head with? If openness is there, awesome, full speed ahead. But if the mind of the other is clearly closed what good is served other than to create a strengthened resistance? There's no hard and fast rules. While getting a message across it's helpful for the other person to be at least somewhat receptive. In the context of resistance and letting go of resistance, most won't even consider doing so until it exceeds their comfort zone. All of the absurd drama here isn't some sort of malfunction. Some people really do need that in their own special way. Which is not to say that getting people to back further into a corner is a strategy but simply to say that it happens and it's not a mistake. Fair enough overall, however, I wouldn't go so far as to say there are absolutely no rules. I was a cop for 8 years. I've dealt with all kinds. When it comes to the ego there are some definite "principles" in operation. Understanding them or not can help or hinder ones attempt to break through. That's all.
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Post by steven on Jul 5, 2013 16:17:11 GMT -5
There's no hard and fast rules. While getting a message across it's helpful for the other person to be at least somewhat receptive. In the context of resistance and letting go of resistance, most won't even consider doing so until it exceeds their comfort zone. All of the absurd drama here isn't some sort of malfunction. Some people really do need that in their own special way. Which is not to say that getting people to back further into a corner is a strategy but simply to say that it happens and it's not a mistake. Fair enough overall, however, I wouldn't go so far as to say there are absolutely no rules. I was a cop for 8 years. I've dealt with all kinds. When it comes to the ego there are some definite "principles" in operation. Understanding them or not can help or hinder ones attempt to break through. That's all. Best to set aside the "knowing" of any principles about Ego or anything else....letting go of "knowing", ALL knowing, opens a space where the ego is no more. Let go of Knowing, and Ego doesn't exist.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 5, 2013 16:32:50 GMT -5
Thank you.
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Post by silence on Jul 5, 2013 16:49:47 GMT -5
When it comes to the ego there are some definite "principles" in operation. I agree. Understanding them or not can help or hinder ones attempt to break through. That's all. What if you understand that "attempting to break through" is itself one of those egoic principles in action? Breaking through either happens or it doesn't and only the one speaking knows if he's coming to the discussion with an agenda in mind.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 5, 2013 17:05:50 GMT -5
Greetings.. Are you not trying to convince Tzu of the errors of his ways? Are you not trying to rid him of his wrong view of things? If my content is that then the principle applies. I can see how you might see the content being only that, but it's not. "To thine own self be true". If I see Tzu' lying to himself and it's really easy to point it out with the words on a page ( like here), I'll do it. Don't mistake holding another to the high standard of honesty with a conceptual quibble -- that's a mistake that Tzu' makes almost all the time btw. When you judge with a biased belief, the judgment is invalid.. you are attached to beliefs similar to E's, and so you craft your disapproval of challenges to support those beliefs.. detach.. let go of the beliefs.. you're not even aware of what the actual issues are, you're too attached to trying paint 'Tzu' into a corner, and there are no walls.. Tzu isn't "lying to himself", he's revealing what is, and you don't like it.. so go ahead, get it out of your system.. Be well..
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 5, 2013 17:12:58 GMT -5
What if you understand that "attempting to break through" is itself one of those egoic principles in action? That's my point. When we "insist" or "persist" on breaking through anothers defenses to make our point when that mind is clearly closed, that is where we are in danger of straying into egoic motivation.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 5, 2013 17:18:35 GMT -5
Greetings.. Quite a bit has been said about resistance here on this forum. In my estimation, you most certainly do carry your battle ground around with - and I think that when a 'battle' has been ongoing for such a long while, all are guilty. E's question wasn't about E, it was about Tzu'. Why are you making it about E'? Do some dumpster diving.. look for how often you engage 'Tzu', in discussions where you weren't included until you saw what you perceive as an opening to make a case against 'Tzu" and for your beliefs.. i would have said "discussions where you were 'unprovoked', but you were provoked months ago, and remain attached to the sting of that interaction even now.. your battleground is your your active mind, and you are emotionally attached to it.. you pursue me every bit as much as you perceive that i pursue E.. it is the intentions that differ, though.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jul 5, 2013 18:06:27 GMT -5
Greetings.. If my content is that then the principle applies. I can see how you might see the content being only that, but it's not. "To thine own self be true". If I see Tzu' lying to himself and it's really easy to point it out with the words on a page ( like here), I'll do it. Don't mistake holding another to the high standard of honesty with a conceptual quibble -- that's a mistake that Tzu' makes almost all the time btw. When you judge with a biased belief, the judgment is invalid.. you are attached to beliefs similar to E's, and so you craft your disapproval of challenges to support those beliefs.. detach.. let go of the beliefs.. you're not even aware of what the actual issues are, you're too attached to trying paint 'Tzu' into a corner, and there are no walls.. Tzu isn't "lying to himself", he's revealing what is, and you don't like it.. so go ahead, get it out of your system.. Be well.. It's very simple ... just go back through the content and witness the pattern such as these latest two posts: - an adversary - a story - negative characterizations - insults ... better yet, just count them and watch as the future content unfolds.
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Post by laughter on Jul 5, 2013 18:07:11 GMT -5
Greetings.. E's question wasn't about E, it was about Tzu'. Why are you making it about E'? Do some dumpster diving.. look for how often you engage 'Tzu', in discussions where you weren't included until you saw what you perceive as an opening to make a case against 'Tzu" and for your beliefs.. i would have said "discussions where you were 'unprovoked', but you were provoked months ago, and remain attached to the sting of that interaction even now.. your battleground is your your active mind, and you are emotionally attached to it.. you pursue me every bit as much as you perceive that i pursue E.. it is the intentions that differ, though.. Be well.. I was thinking SF might even be a more interesting dive ... what is Tzu's login name over there?
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Post by silence on Jul 5, 2013 18:32:29 GMT -5
What if you understand that "attempting to break through" is itself one of those egoic principles in action? That's my point. When we "insist" or "persist" on breaking through anothers defenses to make our point when that mind is clearly closed, that is where we are in danger of straying into egoic motivation. Sure but that's something for you to recognize for yourself and not a new agenda to bring to the table to break through to others...ironically.
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