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Post by Reefs on Jul 4, 2013 9:38:10 GMT -5
Oh, now you are just pointing, too? That's getting better and betterer. First you say that a realization is kinda worthless and our pointing useless and now you are telling us about this one crucial realization that beats them all and how your speech is also just a pointer after all? I have clearly said that realizations are crucial, and I never actually said that pointing is useless. That's more giraffe-ing. I am saying that this realization supersedes all realizations, including itself. I HAVE said that your realizations are not worth the paper they are printed out. That's a pointer to the superseding realization. What are my realizations?
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Post by Reefs on Jul 4, 2013 9:40:19 GMT -5
Because it loses all sense of something or anything to hang its hat on. It loses all sense of there being something or anything to settle into. It even loses all sense of its own existence. So mind basically thinks "I'm phucked" and then implodes?
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Post by Reefs on Jul 4, 2013 9:41:00 GMT -5
Well, Mr Extra-Literal, 'little greasy spot' is a pointer. I know. The pointer is an error. Your extra-literalism is an error.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 4, 2013 9:46:14 GMT -5
It's your ultimate realization? Are you postulating or are you willing to commit and be certain in an absolute sense? Haha okay, its 'the ultimate realization'. And you gotta be 'an ultimate warrior' to have it hehe (j/k) Realizations about stuff still happen afterwards, but they are just more waves on the ocean...they lose their...'profundity'. It has been realized that realizations are as empty as anything else. In this sense, what I am suggesting is that abiding peace is prior to realizations. Theoretically, its true that realizations are not necessary in order for abiding peace to be the case, but practically speaking, I couldn't agree with that. Your 'prior to' is still within the realm of 'all just is a play of ideas'? Or prior to that?
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Post by Reefs on Jul 4, 2013 9:50:31 GMT -5
Again, it can be seen to be that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is. The 'prior' realization is profound and useful, and it is one that is superseded, but that doesn't mean that I don't utilize the 'prior' pointer at times. It all depends on the convo. I would tend to say that seeing is different from thinking, reasoning, concluding, but I would not say its a 'true' distinction. That what are you actually saying?
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Post by andrew on Jul 4, 2013 9:52:52 GMT -5
I would just say that mind collapses in on itself, or dissolves in on itself And then what? Play of ideas is over? No.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 4, 2013 9:53:06 GMT -5
It can be seen that the seer and the seen co-arise. It could also be seen that seer and seen are one. It can actually also be seen that there is only seeing. But what I assume you are talking about is a prior eternal unchanging seer, which is a useful realization but its also one to be seen through (as they all are). Who is seeing all that?
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Post by andrew on Jul 4, 2013 9:53:51 GMT -5
I have clearly said that realizations are crucial, and I never actually said that pointing is useless. That's more giraffe-ing. I am saying that this realization supersedes all realizations, including itself. I HAVE said that your realizations are not worth the paper they are printed out. That's a pointer to the superseding realization. What are my realizations? Whatever ones you've had.
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Post by andrew on Jul 4, 2013 9:56:00 GMT -5
Because it loses all sense of something or anything to hang its hat on. It loses all sense of there being something or anything to settle into. It even loses all sense of its own existence. So mind basically thinks "I'm phucked" and then implodes? Practically speaking, its more of a letting go, a release.
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Post by andrew on Jul 4, 2013 9:57:06 GMT -5
Haha okay, its 'the ultimate realization'. And you gotta be 'an ultimate warrior' to have it hehe (j/k) Realizations about stuff still happen afterwards, but they are just more waves on the ocean...they lose their...'profundity'. It has been realized that realizations are as empty as anything else. In this sense, what I am suggesting is that abiding peace is prior to realizations. Theoretically, its true that realizations are not necessary in order for abiding peace to be the case, but practically speaking, I couldn't agree with that. Your 'prior to' is still within the realm of 'all just is a play of ideas'? Or prior to that? The 'prior to' is within the realm of ideas, but I point prior to ideas too sometimes.
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Post by andrew on Jul 4, 2013 9:59:14 GMT -5
Again, it can be seen to be that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is. The 'prior' realization is profound and useful, and it is one that is superseded, but that doesn't mean that I don't utilize the 'prior' pointer at times. It all depends on the convo. I would tend to say that seeing is different from thinking, reasoning, concluding, but I would not say its a 'true' distinction. That what are you actually saying? I'm saying there that I create distinctions too but that doesn't mean that I consider them to be necessarily true distinctions. On the other hand, I don't consider them to be necessarily false either.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 4, 2013 10:00:24 GMT -5
To add Top. My position is one of faith, not realization. But its not a faith in something, its not even a faith in God, though I do like the word 'God'. I can't even say its a faith in 'possibility' or 'the unknown' or 'nothing' because I'm not actively placing faith. The best I can say is that its a purely empty faith. A faith that has no grounds. A faith in faith itself. TMT Your 'faith in faith itself' is faith the idea that 'all is just a play of idreas'.
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Post by andrew on Jul 4, 2013 10:02:33 GMT -5
It can be seen that the seer and the seen co-arise. It could also be seen that seer and seen are one. It can actually also be seen that there is only seeing. But what I assume you are talking about is a prior eternal unchanging seer, which is a useful realization but its also one to be seen through (as they all are). Who is seeing all that? There might be a seer of some kind, or there might not be. There might not even be seeing. Its all...possible. Again. No idea is necessarily true (or false).
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Post by andrew on Jul 4, 2013 10:03:08 GMT -5
To add Top. My position is one of faith, not realization. But its not a faith in something, its not even a faith in God, though I do like the word 'God'. I can't even say its a faith in 'possibility' or 'the unknown' or 'nothing' because I'm not actively placing faith. The best I can say is that its a purely empty faith. A faith that has no grounds. A faith in faith itself. TMT Your 'faith in faith itself' is faith the idea that 'all is just a play of idreas'. No. If it was, I would have said that.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 4, 2013 10:03:30 GMT -5
And then what? Play of ideas is over? No. So the play of ideas continues without mind?
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