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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2013 11:58:17 GMT -5
No I don't mean into a little greasy spot. That's still collapsing into something. I think you might be misunderstanding what Enigma means by a "little greasy spot" if you're thinking its a some-thing... I'm not suggesting that this 'greasy spot' is defined as a something, no. On the other hand, I would not say that mind collapses into anything. I don't tend to talk in these terms anyway, I'm just going with the run of the conversation, but for the sake of this conversation, I would just say that mind collapses in on itself, or dissolves in on itself or something like that.
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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2013 12:01:00 GMT -5
The superceding realization cannot come with cementing, by definition of the realization. Again, you don't understand what is being pointed to or suggested. Oh, now you are just pointing, too? That's getting better and betterer. First you say that a realization is kinda worthless and our pointing useless and now you are telling us about this one crucial realization that beats them all and how your speech is also just a pointer after all? I have clearly said that realizations are crucial, and I never actually said that pointing is useless. That's more giraffe-ing. I am saying that this realization supersedes all realizations, including itself. I HAVE said that your realizations are not worth the paper they are printed out. That's a pointer to the superseding realization.
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Post by topology on Jul 3, 2013 12:03:42 GMT -5
Oh, now you are just pointing, too? That's getting better and betterer. First you say that a realization is kinda worthless and our pointing useless and now you are telling us about this one crucial realization that beats them all and how your speech is also just a pointer after all? I have clearly said that realizations are crucial, and I never actually said that pointing is useless. That's more giraffe-ing. I am saying that this realization supersedes all realizations, including itself. I HAVE said that your realizations are not worth the paper they are printed out. That's a pointer to the superseding realization. It's your ultimate realization? Are you postulating or are you willing to commit and be certain in an absolute sense?
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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2013 12:04:56 GMT -5
Exactly! Mind commits seppuku. Essentially the superceding realization collapses all former realizations, and even collapses itself i.e all realizations are released to the proverbial void. Why would mind do that? Because it loses all sense of something or anything to hang its hat on. It loses all sense of there being something or anything to settle into. It even loses all sense of its own existence.
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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2013 12:05:57 GMT -5
No I don't mean into a little greasy spot. That's still collapsing into something. Well, Mr Extra-Literal, 'little greasy spot' is a pointer. I know. The pointer is an error.
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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2013 12:10:34 GMT -5
I have clearly said that realizations are crucial, and I never actually said that pointing is useless. That's more giraffe-ing. I am saying that this realization supersedes all realizations, including itself. I HAVE said that your realizations are not worth the paper they are printed out. That's a pointer to the superseding realization. It's your ultimate realization? Are you postulating or are you willing to commit and be certain in an absolute sense? Haha okay, its 'the ultimate realization'. And you gotta be 'an ultimate warrior' to have it hehe (j/k) Realizations about stuff still happen afterwards, but they are just more waves on the ocean...they lose their...'profundity'. It has been realized that realizations are as empty as anything else. In this sense, what I am suggesting is that abiding peace is prior to realizations. Theoretically, its true that realizations are not necessary in order for abiding peace to be the case, but practically speaking, I couldn't agree with that.
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Post by topology on Jul 3, 2013 12:15:18 GMT -5
It's your ultimate realization? Are you postulating or are you willing to commit and be certain in an absolute sense? Haha okay, its 'the ultimate realization'. And you gotta be 'an ultimate warrior' to have it hehe (j/k) Realizations about stuff still happen afterwards, but they are just more waves on the ocean...they lose their...'profundity'. It has been realized that realizations are as empty as anything else. In this sense, what I am suggesting is that abiding peace is prior to realizations. Theoretically, its true that realizations are not necessary in order for abiding peace to be the case, but practically speaking, I couldn't agree with that. By what means do you know that abiding peace is prior to realizations?
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Post by topology on Jul 3, 2013 12:15:29 GMT -5
It's your ultimate realization? Are you postulating or are you willing to commit and be certain in an absolute sense? Haha okay, its 'the ultimate realization'. And you gotta be 'an ultimate warrior' to have it hehe (j/k) Realizations about stuff still happen afterwards, but they are just more waves on the ocean...they lose their...'profundity'. It has been realized that realizations are as empty as anything else. In this sense, what I am suggesting is that abiding peace is prior to realizations. Theoretically, its true that realizations are not necessary in order for abiding peace to be the case, but practically speaking, I couldn't agree with that. By what means do you know that abiding peace is prior to realizations?
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 3, 2013 12:17:57 GMT -5
Greetings.. It's your ultimate realization? Are you postulating or are you willing to commit and be certain in an absolute sense? Haha okay, its 'the ultimate realization'. And you gotta be 'an ultimate warrior' to have it hehe (j/k) Realizations about stuff still happen afterwards, but they are just more waves on the ocean...they lose their...'profundity'. It has been realized that realizations are as empty as anything else. In this sense, what I am suggesting is that abiding peace is prior to realizations. Theoretically, its true that realizations are not necessary in order for abiding peace to be the case, but practically speaking, I couldn't agree with that. Hi Andrew: It is my understanding that to simply and actually 'let go', that is the peace people seek, but.. the 'seeking' is itself an attachment that is also an obstacle.. self-imagery is another attachment that is difficult to set free.. in other words, to 'get it', you have to let it go.. it's as simple as that. Be well..
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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2013 12:24:01 GMT -5
Haha okay, its 'the ultimate realization'. And you gotta be 'an ultimate warrior' to have it hehe (j/k) Realizations about stuff still happen afterwards, but they are just more waves on the ocean...they lose their...'profundity'. It has been realized that realizations are as empty as anything else. In this sense, what I am suggesting is that abiding peace is prior to realizations. Theoretically, its true that realizations are not necessary in order for abiding peace to be the case, but practically speaking, I couldn't agree with that. By what means do you know that abiding peace is prior to realizations? I don't, but it can be seen to be that way, and its a useful pointer away from the potential search for 'an ultimate realization'. I didn't want to set up that kind of search because the words are deceiving....its all far far...less grandiose than the words convey.
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Post by andrew on Jul 3, 2013 12:29:04 GMT -5
Greetings.. Haha okay, its 'the ultimate realization'. And you gotta be 'an ultimate warrior' to have it hehe (j/k) Realizations about stuff still happen afterwards, but they are just more waves on the ocean...they lose their...'profundity'. It has been realized that realizations are as empty as anything else. In this sense, what I am suggesting is that abiding peace is prior to realizations. Theoretically, its true that realizations are not necessary in order for abiding peace to be the case, but practically speaking, I couldn't agree with that. Hi Andrew: It is my understanding that to simply and actually 'let go', that is the peace people seek, but.. the 'seeking' is itself an attachment that is also an obstacle.. self-imagery is another attachment that is difficult to set free.. in other words, to 'get it', you have to let it go.. it's as simple as that. Be well.. Yes, it is that simple really. But I also understand that in the midst of attachment, its not always that easy! I went through hell in order to find a simpler and clearer way, though I understand that the way I talk probably doesn't often reflect that simplicity and clarity. IMO the search for a simpler/clearer way is justified and it seems to be just the way it is that many have to struggle to find a simpler way.
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Post by topology on Jul 3, 2013 12:35:37 GMT -5
By what means do you know that abiding peace is prior to realizations? I don't, but it can be seen to be that way, and its a useful pointer away from the potential search for 'an ultimate realization'. I didn't want to set up that kind of search because the words are deceiving....its all far far...less grandiose than the words convey. Is the seeing prior to what is seen? Is seeing different from thinking, reasoning, concluding?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 12:36:44 GMT -5
Greetings.. Hi Andrew: It is my understanding that to simply and actually 'let go', that is the peace people seek, but.. the 'seeking' is itself an attachment that is also an obstacle.. self-imagery is another attachment that is difficult to set free.. in other words, to 'get it', you have to let it go.. it's as simple as that. Be well.. Yes, it is that simple really. But I also understand that in the midst of attachment, its not always that easy! I went through hell in order to find a simpler and clearer way, though I understand that the way I talk probably doesn't often reflect that simplicity and clarity. IMO the search for a simpler/clearer way is justified and it seems to be just the way it is that many have to struggle to find a simpler way. You can discover everlasting peace this very moment if you were to simply drop Desire completely. Or you can take several months, years or lifetimes, to drop individual Desires as they arise. It all depends on how much Desire you have to drop Desire...
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 3, 2013 12:41:37 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes, it is that simple really. But I also understand that in the midst of attachment, its not always that easy! I went through hell in order to find a simpler and clearer way, though I understand that the way I talk probably doesn't often reflect that simplicity and clarity. IMO the search for a simpler/clearer way is justified and it seems to be just the way it is that many have to struggle to find a simpler way. You can discover everlasting peace this very moment if you were to simply drop Desire completely. Or you can take several months, years or lifetimes, to drop individual Desires as they arise. It all depends on how much Desire you have to drop Desire... Clarity dissolves desire.. Be well..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 12:41:43 GMT -5
.. in other words, to 'get it', you have to let it go.. it's as simple as that. can you elaborate further on "let it go"? my understanding is that you have to "see through it", which is more like a divine intervention, than anything one can "do". and once the falsity of whatever was seen through is recognized, it then is 'let go' or 'falls away' naturally, and without any effort.
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