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Post by silence on Jun 22, 2013 18:46:51 GMT -5
Seems like people want some degree of hand holding and to also not be lied to. It's very difficult for both to happen. Many here, I think, would change "hand holding" to compassion before agreeing with that. They want to know that they're seen and understood and, when it comes down to it, loved. The irony is that not being lied to is an act of love. Yes and so there's a very important exploration of what love actually is and what it means to be loved. The desire from within the personal perspective is to no longer feel insecure and yet the personal perspective is the cause of the insecurity. From that insecurity, all of the wants you describe come forth.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 22, 2013 19:31:09 GMT -5
Greetings.. Many here, I think, would change "hand holding" to compassion before agreeing with that. They want to know that they're seen and understood and, when it comes down to it, loved. The irony is that not being lied to is an act of love. Yes and so there's a very important exploration of what love actually is and what it means to be loved. The desire from within the personal perspective is to no longer feel insecure and yet the personal perspective is the cause of the insecurity. From that insecurity, all of the wants you describe come forth. "Love" is another subjective understanding, it differs from one experiencer to the next.. different experiencers can observe/experience the same tree, movie, beach, sunset, apple pie, and although they may interpret the experiences differently, they had the same experience as a common reference, but.. 'love', is an internal conceptual reference that differs based on too many variables to be a 'common reference'.. "Not being lied to" is an act of 'authenticity'.. the personal perspective is not the cause of insecurity, misunderstanding and deception are the causes of insecurity.. Be well..
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Post by Reefs on Jun 22, 2013 22:07:10 GMT -5
Fine, I will spell it out for you. My position is that psychoanalysis is a great tool but when it is used in an asymmetrical context (analyst/analysand) it should be done only with someone of great competence and with absolute confidentiality. This forum is a terrible place for it. At the present moment, on this forum there is present neither sufficient competence, certainly no confidentiality, and above all here is way too much hostility - some discussions here are utterly bizarre and the behaviour of some members is quite frightening to be honest. So, given that all this should be somewhat obvious, what does it take for someone to openly confront another member and force him to reveal the depth of his/her personality, especially in such an unsuitable context? And even worse, to structure the discussion so that another member is expected to repent his/her sins, even though the sins are a matter of interpretation? I suggest that this attitude is supported by a sadistic desire for dominance, not dissimilar from the "show me yours, but I won't show you mine" example. That is not to say that personal matters can't be discussed here, but merely that it can only be done so absolutely voluntarily and in total solidarity and absent any sort of dominance, it is this asymmetry that accounts for many conflicts. Thank you for spelling it out for me. I don't understand any of that asymmetric dissimilar Questionnaire gibberish. Who are the perverts? Give names.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 22, 2013 22:08:23 GMT -5
All the same in my book, an imaginary journey thru unicorn land. They should just buy one of these and be done with it. Then they would have all exactly the same journey.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 22, 2013 22:12:46 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes and so there's a very important exploration of what love actually is and what it means to be loved. The desire from within the personal perspective is to no longer feel insecure and yet the personal perspective is the cause of the insecurity. From that insecurity, all of the wants you describe come forth. "Love" is another subjective understanding, it differs from one experiencer to the next.. different experiencers can observe/experience the same tree, movie, beach, sunset, apple pie, and although they may interpret the experiences differently, they had the same experience as a common reference, but.. 'love', is an internal conceptual reference that differs based on too many variables to be a 'common reference'.. "Not being lied to" is an act of 'authenticity'.. the personal perspective is not the cause of insecurity, misunderstanding and deception are the causes of insecurity.. Be well.. You don't say!? Do you include all the folks who can't provide a link to back up their claims in this deception/insecurity box?
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Post by silence on Jun 22, 2013 22:38:34 GMT -5
"Love" is another subjective understanding, it differs from one experiencer to the next.. different experiencers can observe/experience the same tree, movie, beach, sunset, apple pie, and although they may interpret the experiences differently, they had the same experience as a common reference, but.. 'love', is an internal conceptual reference that differs based on too many variables to be a 'common reference'.. Would it be less complicated for you if I called it peace? "Not being lied to" is an act of 'authenticity'.. the personal perspective is not the cause of insecurity, misunderstanding and deception are the causes of insecurity.. Misunderstanding/deception are the cause of the personal perspective and subsequently insecurity.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 22, 2013 23:09:54 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. "Love" is another subjective understanding, it differs from one experiencer to the next.. different experiencers can observe/experience the same tree, movie, beach, sunset, apple pie, and although they may interpret the experiences differently, they had the same experience as a common reference, but.. 'love', is an internal conceptual reference that differs based on too many variables to be a 'common reference'.. "Not being lied to" is an act of 'authenticity'.. the personal perspective is not the cause of insecurity, misunderstanding and deception are the causes of insecurity.. Be well.. You don't say!? Do you include all the folks who can't provide a link to back up their claims in this deception/insecurity box? I do say.. I have no interest in providing links to what i know has been posted.. there's a difference between can't and won't.. kudos to you, you tenacious dumpster diver, you are so invested in the past, to prove your beliefs, that that the clarity which would erase that neediness escapes you.. Be well..
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Post by lolly on Jun 22, 2013 23:18:30 GMT -5
It's possible that it's about settling a score from the ban-voting thread. I just don't happen to be able to see the connection or significance of name calling and spiritual progress. No that's right... name calling is not progrest... the spiritually progressed use insinuation instead.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 22, 2013 23:36:35 GMT -5
Greetings.. "Love" is another subjective understanding, it differs from one experiencer to the next.. different experiencers can observe/experience the same tree, movie, beach, sunset, apple pie, and although they may interpret the experiences differently, they had the same experience as a common reference, but.. 'love', is an internal conceptual reference that differs based on too many variables to be a 'common reference'.. Would it be less complicated for you if I called it peace? "Not being lied to" is an act of 'authenticity'.. the personal perspective is not the cause of insecurity, misunderstanding and deception are the causes of insecurity.. Misunderstanding/deception are the cause of the personal perspective and subsequently insecurity. You're chasing the tail of your own beliefs.. The 'personal perspective' is what you are posting, it is 'your' personal perspective about what is actually happening, and it is also a misunderstanding.. most people don't like insecurity, and since some people can't find a solution they do like, they find favor in the in someone else's story/illusion about the cause of insecurity, i.e.: "personal perspective", but.. as long as we/us/Life are integrated with a physical vehicle, there is no escaping 'personal perspective'.. even the still mind experience is experienced from a unique and personal perspective, it just happens to be clear.. "Insecurity" is a misunderstanding about what is actually happening, blaming it on 'personal perspectives', is abdicating the opportunity to actually make a difference.. do you really believe that insecurity ends when you pretend there is no 'personal perspective'? If so, please explain that process, i am truly interested .. it is 'my' experience that the abdication of a personal perspective gives the pretender permission to ignore the suffering that inspires their fears and insecurities, but.. make your case, i am willing to revise my understanding upon evidence to the contrary.. Be well..
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Post by Reefs on Jun 23, 2013 0:22:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. You don't say!? Do you include all the folks who can't provide a link to back up their claims in this deception/insecurity box? I do say.. I have no interest in providing links to what i know has been posted.. there's a difference between can't and won't.. kudos to you, you tenacious dumpster diver, you are so invested in the past, to prove your beliefs, that that the clarity which would erase that neediness escapes you.. Be well.. Very simple Tzu. In your case, you can't, so you won't. Remember, you deliberately chose being old and having poor memory. What are the chances you don't remember correctly and all happened in your mind only?
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Post by silence on Jun 23, 2013 11:32:03 GMT -5
Greetings.. Would it be less complicated for you if I called it peace? Misunderstanding/deception are the cause of the personal perspective and subsequently insecurity. You're chasing the tail of your own beliefs.. The 'personal perspective' is what you are posting, it is 'your' personal perspective about what is actually happening, and it is also a misunderstanding.. most people don't like insecurity, and since some people can't find a solution they do like, they find favor in the in someone else's story/illusion about the cause of insecurity, i.e.: "personal perspective", but.. as long as we/us/Life are integrated with a physical vehicle, there is no escaping 'personal perspective'.. even the still mind experience is experienced from a unique and personal perspective, it just happens to be clear.. "Insecurity" is a misunderstanding about what is actually happening, blaming it on 'personal perspectives', is abdicating the opportunity to actually make a difference.. do you really believe that insecurity ends when you pretend there is no 'personal perspective'? If so, please explain that process, i am truly interested .. it is 'my' experience that the abdication of a personal perspective gives the pretender permission to ignore the suffering that inspires their fears and insecurities, but.. make your case, i am willing to revise my understanding upon evidence to the contrary.. Be well.. Personal perspective was likely a lazy term on my part as I'm not trying to say that there are not people walking around having different experiences. I'm talking about the arising of a psychological separate self which exists wholly in the realm of thought.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 23, 2013 11:40:03 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. I do say.. I have no interest in providing links to what i know has been posted.. there's a difference between can't and won't.. kudos to you, you tenacious dumpster diver, you are so invested in the past, to prove your beliefs, that that the clarity which would erase that neediness escapes you.. Be well.. Very simple Tzu. In your case, you can't, so you won't. Remember, you deliberately chose being old and having poor memory. What are the chances you don't remember correctly and all happened in your mind only? In this case, the chances are near zero.. please don't take offense, but.. your games do not interest me, so it is "very simple", i have no inclination or need to prove anything to you.. so, rant-on, oh caustic one, seethe away.. Be well..
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Post by enigma on Jun 23, 2013 21:43:42 GMT -5
Many here, I think, would change "hand holding" to compassion before agreeing with that. They want to know that they're seen and understood and, when it comes down to it, loved. The irony is that not being lied to is an act of love. Yes and so there's a very important exploration of what love actually is and what it means to be loved. The desire from within the personal perspective is to no longer feel insecure and yet the personal perspective is the cause of the insecurity. From that insecurity, all of the wants you describe come forth. Yeah, it's a personal perspective (not even a person) that apparently needs to escape the implications of that perspective. That's why whatever is done through the personal perspective is fundamentally the wrong thing, and there isn't something else that needs to do something.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 24, 2013 0:06:26 GMT -5
Greetings.. Very simple Tzu. In your case, you can't, so you won't. Remember, you deliberately chose being old and having poor memory. What are the chances you don't remember correctly and all happened in your mind only? In this case, the chances are near zero.. please don't take offense, but.. your games do not interest me, so it is "very simple", i have no inclination or need to prove anything to you.. so, rant-on, oh caustic one, seethe away.. Be well.. * facepalm *
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Post by amit on Jun 25, 2013 3:29:11 GMT -5
Hi topology, I don't know you or others here and this is not a supportive place to do as you ask. Not all here treat each other with care. It would be foolish to do as you ask under those circumstances. Is that why you are not doing it?My question was directed to those who don't care about those considerations and feel that it is useful to get personal. Lets see how many of them are willing when it is there character under the spotlight. Not many I suspect. amit Is that you talking about your defense pattern intentionally or just employing it to evade answering your own question? I'll point you to the second post on this thread where I contributed and then point to where you posted saying the contributions so far were not what you wanted. If you are not willing to lead by example or be the first to self-examine when you call for self-examination, then your request is hardly genuine or without an ulterior agenda. My defensiveness on the forum has mostly been denials of how I've held onto childhood issues and denials about making mistakes in perception or prejudgments. I'm still learning how to hear clearly and review my emotional reactions before posting from a reactive place. Beingist was actually pretty accurate in his summary of me. I am uncomfortable with conflict and working on some self acceptance issues, which plays out into wanting to be accepted by others and trying to be a peace maker and inserting myself into interactions to try to mitigate perceived conflict. Hi topology, Yes my previous response to you is of course a defense. My question was not directed at myself, I am not into getting personal on a forum like this for reasons already considered. The purpose of the thread was to see how many of those who are into getting personal are willing to put their defenses under the spotlight. amit
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