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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 13:55:18 GMT -5
On the basis of all the assumptions on which the question is formed. Right. So. You have made an assumption that the question is formed on...assumptions. As you can see, your 'realization' is underpinned by assumptions!
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 13:58:27 GMT -5
I am not saying 'its all made up', that's your pointer not mine, I wouldn't say 'its all made up'. What I am saying is that 'everything is a play of ideas', which is somewhat different to saying 'its all made up' because I am not implying a maker-upper. I'm not implying that either. They are the same. Your assumptions are just more made up ideas. Drrrrrrrrop em. I agree that assumptions are just ideas, and a realization is just another idea, based on assumptions! In this sense, your realizations are not worth the paper they are printed on. They are a red herring. A giraffe. Delusion.
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Post by enigma on Jun 29, 2013 14:00:00 GMT -5
A non-conceptual realization. No, it isn't. Serially, Andrew, we can't talk about realization cuz you've never had one. I dunno, e. I think A might have had a realization or two in his lifetime. Maybe he just doesn't call it a realization? And, maybe because he likes swimming in ideas so much, that he's just playing with you? Remember, to English folks, a 'bonnet' is the hood of a car, and gas is 'petrol'. I used to think he was just word lawyering it, but the way he talks about realization makes it clear he has no familiarity with it. i think he has clicked with ideas, and then he thinks he realized something. He found that his version of realization didn't change anything because he never actually realized. Realizations always change something.
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 14:02:02 GMT -5
I dunno, e. I think A might have had a realization or two in his lifetime. Maybe he just doesn't call it a realization? And, maybe because he likes swimming in ideas so much, that he's just playing with you? Remember, to English folks, a 'bonnet' is the hood of a car, and gas is 'petrol'. I used to think he was just word lawyering it, but the way he talks about realization makes it clear he has no familiarity with it. i think he has clicked with ideas, and then he thinks he realized something. He found that his version of realization didn't change anything because he never actually realized. Realizations always change something. I agree realizations change something, I was clear about that in my 'lecture'. The point I am stating very clearly is that they CAN be attached to because they are ideas. Its because they are ideas, that they change something.
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Post by silver on Jun 29, 2013 14:04:07 GMT -5
I used to think he was just word lawyering it, but the way he talks about realization makes it clear he has no familiarity with it. i think he has clicked with ideas, and then he thinks he realized something. He found that his version of realization didn't change anything because he never actually realized. Realizations always change something. I agree realizations change something, I was clear about that in my 'lecture'. The point I am stating very clearly is that they CAN be attached to because they are ideas. Its because they are ideas, that they change something. I keep wantin' to tell ya to give it up, Andy ~ He only likes the sound of his own words ~ even if you're saying almost the same t'ing.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 29, 2013 14:04:22 GMT -5
I'm not implying that either. They are the same. Your assumptions are just more made up ideas. Drrrrrrrrop em. I agree that assumptions are just ideas, and a realization is just another idea, based on assumptions! In this sense, your realizations are not worth the paper they are printed on. They are a red herring. A giraffe. Delusion. A realization is an experience when it happens. It's an idea when its talked about. The effects of a realization, like a germinated seed, can grow in marvelous and wondrous ways.
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 14:06:09 GMT -5
I agree that assumptions are just ideas, and a realization is just another idea, based on assumptions! In this sense, your realizations are not worth the paper they are printed on. They are a red herring. A giraffe. Delusion. A realization is an experience when it happens. It's an idea when its talked about. The effects of a realization, like a germinated seed, can grow in marvelous and wondrous ways. I have made it clear that realizations are crucial if abiding peace is the goal. My point remains that a realization is an idea and can be attached to, and it hasn't been realized that no idea is necessarily true or false, then realizations are likely to be attached to.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2013 14:08:42 GMT -5
A realization IS an idea. What else could it be? A non-conceptual realization. What's the difference between a non-conceptual realization and a non-conceptual apple?
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 14:10:34 GMT -5
I agree realizations change something, I was clear about that in my 'lecture'. The point I am stating very clearly is that they CAN be attached to because they are ideas. Its because they are ideas, that they change something. I keep wantin' to tell ya to give it up, Andy ~ He only likes the sound of his own words ~ even if you're saying almost the same t'ing. I seem to remain ever hopeful hehe.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 29, 2013 14:24:52 GMT -5
I dunno, e. I think A might have had a realization or two in his lifetime. Maybe he just doesn't call it a realization? And, maybe because he likes swimming in ideas so much, that he's just playing with you? Remember, to English folks, a 'bonnet' is the hood of a car, and gas is 'petrol'. I used to think he was just word lawyering it, but the way he talks about realization makes it clear he has no familiarity with it. i think he has clicked with ideas, and then he thinks he realized something. He found that his version of realization didn't change anything because he never actually realized. Realizations always change something. Okay. (I still have no idea what you guys are even talking about )
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 14:30:55 GMT -5
I used to think he was just word lawyering it, but the way he talks about realization makes it clear he has no familiarity with it. i think he has clicked with ideas, and then he thinks he realized something. He found that his version of realization didn't change anything because he never actually realized. Realizations always change something. Okay. (I still have no idea what you guys are even talking about ) What I am saying is actually very simple. I am saying that realizations happen in mind (though I am fine to say they are 'non-conceptual'), and for that reason, by definition, they can be questioned. E has said that they are not mind, and therefore cannot be questioned by definition. Because I say they can be questioned, E says I have never had one, or that any realization I might have had, I have turned into a conclusion to be questioned.
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Post by enigma on Jun 29, 2013 14:33:07 GMT -5
I have no way of telling you. And the basis for having no way of telling me is what? The basis is that it's non-conceptual.
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 14:36:15 GMT -5
And the basis for having no way of telling me is what? The basis is that it's non-conceptual. Non-conceptual is still 'mind'. It can be realized that there is no free will. It can be realized that there is no person. It can be realized that there is no separation. It can be realized that the issue of purpose is misconceived. All non-conceptual realizations, all conceptually stated. And notice this. You still have an assumed basis for the realization.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 29, 2013 14:37:12 GMT -5
Okay. (I still have no idea what you guys are even talking about ) What I am saying is actually very simple. I am saying that realizations happen in mind (though I am fine to say they are 'non-conceptual'), and for that reason, by definition, they can be questioned. E has said that they are not mind, and therefore cannot be questioned by definition. Because I say they can be questioned, E says I have never had one, or that any realization I might have had, I have turned into a conclusion to be questioned. Okay. Thanks for synopsis. I, myself, am probably more in E's camp--they're not mind, at least not the ones to which he refers. To me, they're more like the transition from mind to Being, from thought to allowance, from suffering to Peace. They're the bridge. You just can't put them in the 'mind' category. I wouldn't know if you've had one. Have you? But, that's just my take. Carry on.
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Post by enigma on Jun 29, 2013 14:37:49 GMT -5
I'm not implying that either. They are the same. Your assumptions are just more made up ideas. Drrrrrrrrop em. I agree that assumptions are just ideas, and a realization is just another idea, based on assumptions! In this sense, your realizations are not worth the paper they are printed on. They are a red herring. A giraffe. Delusion. It's not going to work, Andrew. I'm not attached to realizations as you think I am.
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