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Post by enigma on Jun 29, 2013 3:12:45 GMT -5
I don't understand the possible relationship between knowing something about myself, and seeing into others. Can you connect the dots for me? Hi enigma, The seeing of what others need would not be clear if unresolved aspects of your own character were being projected. amit Agreed.
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Post by enigma on Jun 29, 2013 3:15:24 GMT -5
No, the point is not about some hierarchy, but that it's all imagination, and so the idea that there are objective answers that have meaning beyond what is assigned to them, is misconceived. I haven't said that they ARE objective answers, hence why I gave a bunch of spiritual teacher's interpretations. The point is that the question is not misconceived, unless you can explain clearly the basis for saying that it is. Crikey. Is it possible......haha....is your basis for the question being misconceived that 'no idea is ultimately true'? That WOULD explain why you think existential ideas are misconceived. Unfortunately the idea that 'no idea is ultimately true' is a misconceived idea hehe. The pointer 'its all imagination' is very misleading because it implies a prior imaginer. No, the basis for saying it is the realization that it's so. Realization is self evident.
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Post by enigma on Jun 29, 2013 3:16:15 GMT -5
I think most peeps can see the absurdity of not knowing the dietary habits of an imaginary creature without more information. The fact that you don't is a bit.....disconcerting. huh? I don't know what you are talking about here. I know.
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Post by enigma on Jun 29, 2013 3:17:50 GMT -5
Again, you have no idea what realization is. You don't. Do you still think realization happens at 'the level' of Being? I really don't know anything about levels. Shorry.
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Post by enigma on Jun 29, 2013 3:19:25 GMT -5
But it wasn't really a recommendation to go off and play with ideas. By the time I 'found' Niz, I was already playing with them hehe. What do you suggest we do with them? Collapse them? I don't suggest you do anything in particular with them, and neither does Niz. He's offering a pointer to a realization.
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 3:20:36 GMT -5
Ironically, it's not even in the top 10 odd things to come out of Andrew's mouth/fingers. Gosh, you have a top 10 list for that? Hehe. I think Silence likes to keep a record of these things.
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 3:22:09 GMT -5
I haven't said that they ARE objective answers, hence why I gave a bunch of spiritual teacher's interpretations. The point is that the question is not misconceived, unless you can explain clearly the basis for saying that it is. Crikey. Is it possible......haha....is your basis for the question being misconceived that 'no idea is ultimately true'? That WOULD explain why you think existential ideas are misconceived. Unfortunately the idea that 'no idea is ultimately true' is a misconceived idea hehe. The pointer 'its all imagination' is very misleading because it implies a prior imaginer. No, the basis for saying it is the realization that it's so. Realization is self evident. What was the realization specifically?
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 3:23:20 GMT -5
You don't. Do you still think realization happens at 'the level' of Being? I really don't know anything about levels. Shorry. Do you still think realizations happen outside of mind?
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 3:26:48 GMT -5
By the time I 'found' Niz, I was already playing with them hehe. What do you suggest we do with them? Collapse them? I don't suggest you do anything in particular with them, and neither does Niz. He's offering a pointer to a realization. The realization that no idea is necessarily true or false, the realization that 'this' is empty (and not even that). Its a pointer to absolute subjectivity.
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 4:45:12 GMT -5
Enigma, your confusion on this subject seems to be centered around this 'realization' business.
If the point of the spiritual path is to 'achieve' an abiding peace, certain realizations are crucial to this. What you seem to have missed is that realizations are still 'mind', okay its not the logical rational thinking mind, but it is still mind in the sense that a realization is just another point of perception, another idea (everything is a play of ideas). Realizations can be attached to, a point of perception can be attached to. What you have not seen/realized is that no idea is necessarily true or false, and I understand why there is resistance to this realization....its because it calls into question every other realization that you have had. It leaves you...'realization-less'. It leaves you without a ground. It leaves you without a fixed point of perception. And it also renders the idea that 'no idea is ultimately true' as misconceived.
Abiding peace has nothing to do with seeing that 'existential questions are misconceived', and that's coz they are not necessarily misconceived. Abiding peace has everything to do with being responsive to the moment, and that might mean answering someone's existential questions. I'm not saying there is no time and place to say that the idea of 'purpose' is a misconceived one, and I'm not saying that its not a useful thing to 'realize', but its not a 'given' answer. Its not a 'fixed' answer. Its not a 'true' answer. At most its just another realization to be released into the proverbial void, and NOT because 'no idea is ultimately true', but because no idea is necessary true or false.
Lecture over!
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Post by Reefs on Jun 29, 2013 10:02:06 GMT -5
Listen to Master Yodali: The content of your mindscape, matter does it not. Beingist, Reefs, I'll explain where my responses are coming from. I experienced this particular quote as Reefs telling me what should or shouldn't be in my mindscape. This is Reefs caring about what is in my mindscape, in essence saying that it matters to him what is in my mindscape. I didn't care about what was in my mindscape, evidenced by the lack of self-consciousness when musing the question. It wasn't a serious question for me, just making idle conversation.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 29, 2013 10:03:38 GMT -5
Enigma, your confusion on this subject seems to be centered around this 'realization' business. If the point of the spiritual path is to 'achieve' an abiding peace, certain realizations are crucial to this. What you seem to have missed is that realizations are still 'mind', okay its not the logical rational thinking mind, but it is still mind in the sense that a realization is just another point of perception, another idea (everything is a play of ideas). Realizations can be attached to, a point of perception can be attached to. What you have not seen/realized is that no idea is necessarily true or false, and I understand why there is resistance to this realization....its because it calls into question every other realization that you have had. It leaves you...'realization-less'. It leaves you without a ground. It leaves you without a fixed point of perception. And it also renders the idea that 'no idea is ultimately true' as misconceived. Abiding peace has nothing to do with seeing that 'existential questions are misconceived', and that's coz they are not necessarily misconceived. Abiding peace has everything to do with being responsive to the moment, and that might mean answering someone's existential questions. I'm not saying there is no time and place to say that the idea of 'purpose' is a misconceived one, and I'm not saying that its not a useful thing to 'realize', but its not a 'given' answer. Its not a 'fixed' answer. Its not a 'true' answer. At most its just another realization to be released into the proverbial void, and NOT because 'no idea is ultimately true', but because no idea is necessary true or false. Lecture over! There goes another lecture on extreme spiritual arrogance...
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Post by Reefs on Jun 29, 2013 10:08:27 GMT -5
That's 10 min horse stance for you, too!
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Post by andrew on Jun 29, 2013 10:11:28 GMT -5
Enigma, your confusion on this subject seems to be centered around this 'realization' business. If the point of the spiritual path is to 'achieve' an abiding peace, certain realizations are crucial to this. What you seem to have missed is that realizations are still 'mind', okay its not the logical rational thinking mind, but it is still mind in the sense that a realization is just another point of perception, another idea (everything is a play of ideas). Realizations can be attached to, a point of perception can be attached to. What you have not seen/realized is that no idea is necessarily true or false, and I understand why there is resistance to this realization....its because it calls into question every other realization that you have had. It leaves you...'realization-less'. It leaves you without a ground. It leaves you without a fixed point of perception. And it also renders the idea that 'no idea is ultimately true' as misconceived. Abiding peace has nothing to do with seeing that 'existential questions are misconceived', and that's coz they are not necessarily misconceived. Abiding peace has everything to do with being responsive to the moment, and that might mean answering someone's existential questions. I'm not saying there is no time and place to say that the idea of 'purpose' is a misconceived one, and I'm not saying that its not a useful thing to 'realize', but its not a 'given' answer. Its not a 'fixed' answer. Its not a 'true' answer. At most its just another realization to be released into the proverbial void, and NOT because 'no idea is ultimately true', but because no idea is necessary true or false. Lecture over! There goes another lecture on extreme spiritual arrogance... Yes, you're right, I am lecturing on extreme spiritual arrogance. Attaching to realizations does tend to create an intense spiritual arrogance, often disguised by a kind of...'impersonal' facade.
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Post by enigma on Jun 29, 2013 10:47:11 GMT -5
No, the basis for saying it is the realization that it's so. Realization is self evident. What was the realization specifically? Existential....questions...are...misconceptions.
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