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Post by Reefs on Jun 28, 2013 10:17:51 GMT -5
How do you know that? How can you be so sure about that? That's quite an assumption? What are the chances that you can let go of that assumption in the next 10 min so that we can have a real conversation for a change? What do you want to discuss? Well, what we are discussing now, maybe. Just without your unnecessary assumptions. Frankly speaking, as long as you insist that everything I tell you is a belief, talking to you isn't much different from talking to a fundamentalist Christian. There's only noise.
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Post by topology on Jun 28, 2013 10:22:53 GMT -5
That foregrounds the question, what is more important: that the questions don't arise anymore or why the questions don't arise anymore? A fundamentalist Christian who has bought the story hook line and sinker may not have any more existential questions. Maybe this guy believes the rap or maybe he doesn't but another possibility is that his lack of questions has no qualitative difference with what Reefs is referring to ... put in a parlance that is quite flawed but more easily recognizable there just might be some enlightened Adventists. More than one way to skin a cat. Ah, but could they remain technically Adventist? The Adventist faith is centered around believing in the second coming of Christ in the form of Jesus, an external man-god. Or are you proposing they would choose to remain in the body of the congregation, a wolf in sheeps clothing?
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Post by andrew on Jun 28, 2013 10:22:58 GMT -5
Call it what you like.....seen/realized/understand/believe. I can well believe that you 'realized' that an existential question is misconceived. To try and use and example here, you may have 'realized' that the issue of free will is misconceived. But the basis for that is the assumption that 'there is no person/individual' to which free will applies/does not apply. If there IS a person/individual, then the issue of free will is not misconceived. Now, you may have 'realized' that 'there is no person/individual', but there is going to be an assumption beneath that too. The realization stands on top of another assumption on top of another assumption on top of another assumption. Its layers and layers of ideas. I'm not saying that the realization is without value, and realizations can and do inform mind and our experience, but its still just another perception point, or idea. Upshot: Don't take realizations so darn seriously. I use that phrase 'questions are misconceived' since about a week after Enigma mentioned it lately because I see where that statement is pointing to. I didn't mention it before. So your theory that I concluded existential questions are misconceived and then put them to rest and never let them arise again is already more than just a little kooky. Fact is, they just don't arise anymore. It just happened. I don't know why you are having such a hard time accepting that? Okay, its true that this 'questions is misconceived' issue has only recently been such a prominent discussion point. However, the 'realization' issue has been ongoing for a while. Realizations CAN be attached to. I do accept that existential questions don't arise for you.
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Post by andrew on Jun 28, 2013 10:26:53 GMT -5
What do you want to discuss? Well, what we are discussing now, maybe. Just without your unnecessary assumptions. Frankly speaking, as long as you insist that everything I tell you is a belief, talking to you isn't much different from talking to a fundamentalist Christian. There's only noise. Okay, I won't use the word 'belief', in which case, how would you describe what you tell me? Would you say that you are conveying 'understandings'? Or are you conveying a 'perspective'?
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Post by Reefs on Jun 28, 2013 10:28:50 GMT -5
Maybe this guy believes the rap or maybe he doesn't but another possibility is that his lack of questions has no qualitative difference with what Reefs is referring to ... put in a parlance that is quite flawed but more easily recognizable there just might be some enlightened Adventists. More than one way to skin a cat. Ah, but could they remain technically Adventist? The Adventist faith is centered around believing in the second coming of Christ in the form of Jesus, an external man-god. Or are you proposing they would choose to remain in the body of the congregation, a wolf in sheeps clothing? Listen to Master Yodali: The content of your mindscape, matter does it not.
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Post by topology on Jun 28, 2013 10:33:03 GMT -5
That foregrounds the question, what is more important: that the questions don't arise anymore or why the questions don't arise anymore? A fundamentalist Christian who has bought the story hook line and sinker may not have any more existential questions. He has answers. Just question his answers and you may get a pretty angry reaction. Which means the answers are important to him which means he's still playing identity poker. Suppose he was of the philosophy of live and let live. When not challenged about his beliefs he is a kind man, cares for his fellow man, a real salt of the earth type that gets things done and takes care of people with little fuss, and doesn't prosletyze, but simply speaks his understanding through his belief framework. Suppose in having his beliefs challenged he enters into severe existential crisis and is no longer able to work or take care of people or feel at peace internally, he becomes despondent and begins to feel like his life is empty and meaningless and that God is absent in the world. Given that nobody has challenged this man's beliefs yet and he seems stable and at peace, do you challenge his beliefs out of principle (or any other reason)?
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Post by topology on Jun 28, 2013 10:35:01 GMT -5
Ah, but could they remain technically Adventist? The Adventist faith is centered around believing in the second coming of Christ in the form of Jesus, an external man-god. Or are you proposing they would choose to remain in the body of the congregation, a wolf in sheeps clothing? Listen to Master Yodali: The content of your mindscape, matter does it not. Nor does your concern about the content of my mindscape matter.
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Post by amit on Jun 28, 2013 10:47:51 GMT -5
Hi enigma, "I further speculate that you suspected these people would resist the intrusion much the same way you have, and therefore might learn something that you suppose they did not know before, perhaps even altering their behavior". You say "and therefore" as though one follows the other. It is possible to resist something and learn nothing about oneself. A literal word lawyer analysis of the syntactical sentence structure reveals that the resistance implies something being denied and the intrusion allows for the potential for that to be revealed. Yes, that potential does follow from the intrusion. Hey, buddy, yer getting pretty personal with your questions here. So was there a basis of knowledge about you that made my previous comments at least legitimate or not? It consisted mostly of information that you have revealed directly here, and it doesn't take a psychic to discern some of your basic unspoken motivations. Hi enigma, Yes they are personal questions to try and get some information about what it is that you think you know about yourself that makes you think you can see into the hearts and minds of others and prescribe for them. Do you know what that might be? amit
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Post by Reefs on Jun 28, 2013 10:57:04 GMT -5
He has answers. Just question his answers and you may get a pretty angry reaction. Which means the answers are important to him which means he's still playing identity poker. Suppose he was of the philosophy of live and let live. When not challenged about his beliefs he is a kind man, cares for his fellow man, a real salt of the earth type that gets things done and takes care of people with little fuss, and doesn't prosletyze, but simply speaks his understanding through his belief framework. Suppose in having his beliefs challenged he enters into severe existential crisis and is no longer able to work or take care of people or feel at peace internally, he becomes despondent and begins to feel like his life is empty and meaningless and that God is absent in the world. Given that nobody has challenged this man's beliefs yet and he seems stable and at peace, do you challenge his beliefs out of principle (or any other reason)? That's quite a stormy painting there, isn't it? Ramana used to say "don't worry about others, let others take care of themselves" or "let the world take care of itself" and Laozi used to say "treat others like straw dogs". Both very good pieces of advice you may wanna ponder a little. I see you a little hung up on moral codes.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 28, 2013 10:58:02 GMT -5
Listen to Master Yodali: The content of your mindscape, matter does it not. Nor does your concern about the content of my mindscape matter. I see it matters to you.
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Post by laughter on Jun 28, 2013 11:04:39 GMT -5
Maybe this guy believes the rap or maybe he doesn't but another possibility is that his lack of questions has no qualitative difference with what Reefs is referring to ... put in a parlance that is quite flawed but more easily recognizable there just might be some enlightened Adventists. More than one way to skin a cat. Ah, but could they remain technically Adventist? The Adventist faith is centered around believing in the second coming of Christ in the form of Jesus, an external man-god. Or are you proposing they would choose to remain in the body of the congregation, a wolf in sheeps clothing?Well I guess that this would be the appearance from the perspective of a believer. It might seem that the question of authenticity could arise within the mind and heart of the wolf, but free means free, right? ... kinda' reminds me of Andrew in a way but we can add the constraining factors of family, small community, etc. ... these hypos are hoooorrrible!
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Post by Beingist on Jun 28, 2013 11:04:41 GMT -5
Nor does your concern about the content of my mindscape matter. I see it matters to you. Okay, this is good. No mockery, but Reefs makes a good observation, Top: your problem with Reefs concerning himself with your mindscape is a concern. I can see it, too. Please note, Top, that I'm not particularly fond of peeps exploring my mindscape, either. But, if you got a problem with it, you got something to look at.
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Post by topology on Jun 28, 2013 11:19:36 GMT -5
Ah, but could they remain technically Adventist? The Adventist faith is centered around believing in the second coming of Christ in the form of Jesus, an external man-god. Or are you proposing they would choose to remain in the body of the congregation, a wolf in sheeps clothing? Listen to Master Yodali: The content of your mindscape, matter does it not. Beingist, Reefs, I'll explain where my responses are coming from. I experienced this particular quote as Reefs telling me what should or shouldn't be in my mindscape. This is Reefs caring about what is in my mindscape, in essence saying that it matters to him what is in my mindscape. I didn't care about what was in my mindscape, evidenced by the lack of self-consciousness when musing the question. It wasn't a serious question for me, just making idle conversation.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 28, 2013 11:46:17 GMT -5
Listen to Master Yodali: The content of your mindscape, matter does it not. Beingist, Reefs, I'll explain where my responses are coming from. I experienced this particular quote as Reefs telling me what should or shouldn't be in my mindscape. This is Reefs caring about what is in my mindscape, in essence saying that it matters to him what is in my mindscape. I didn't care about what was in my mindscape, evidenced by the lack of self-consciousness when musing the question. It wasn't a serious question for me, just making idle conversation. Oh. Okey dokey.
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Post by silence on Jun 28, 2013 15:58:25 GMT -5
Yes, that's very well said. Yes. However, the thought occurred that our literal Being-ist may be reading and re-reading trying to make sense of the "being" in this sentence, which i believe should be "begin".: (Just thought maybe I could save a couple of weeks of research) Yea, that would probably help.
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