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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 15, 2016 13:16:12 GMT -5
I'm just promoting Ian Wolstenholme on here I'm just passing through, just an exchange, a thank you. As for the Dalai Lama he's just a repeater standing on the shoulders of what has come before him. I have met many who know little knowledge but just break through into that nothingness. Have no language for it. Their samskaras, the accumulation of good and bad action, was very little, just a thin veil, their light on an inner level attracts the light of a teacher without. No use reading books, repeating like Shawn, if you have a debt you can't plough through from your own efforts. No technique, no method can see you through without a guide, rare is one who truly submits, one in a million, who needs not a guide. Not even spiritual teachers forum, Shawn, the TAT can brings much in the way, they are just playgrounds for entertainment, a place for conversation. Read back, you've missed something in your eagerness to show your knowledge which is not really your own knowledge, your own experience. Without a teacher, and without knowing anything about anything, it's possible to suddenly encounter the Infinite. When this happens, all worries and cares instantly vanish, and one encounters something so vast and intelligent that the body/mind is overjoyed to discover that everything is taken care of, that the world is perfect just as it is, that all normal pursuits are part of a mysterious play, that the entire field of being is alive and unified, and that love is the underlying principle of reality. One who sees this instantly loses all interest in anything personal, and becomes solely interested in the welfare of other beings (including plants and animals). The idea of past or future lives, and all other similar ideas, loses all meaning because it is seen that there is no time or space, and that whatever happens is happening through some grand scheme that is unfolding in perfection. Somehow, the Infinite, through a particular body/mind, can perceive It's own vastness and the feeling of the individual to whom this happens is similar to discovering that one is being held in a loving embrace by something that has everything under such infinite control that there is simply nothing to ever worry about. If that individual were told that s/he would be dead in three hours, it would be perfectly okay because s/he would know that that's all part of the perfect unfolding of what's going on. FWIW, samskaras are only a meaningful idea on the personal intellectual level. At the level of the Infinite, such ideas vanish and are meaningless. I certainly agree almost anyone out of the blue can "suddenly encounter" (those words alone are a significant hint) something absolutely significant. I'm not sure the Infinite would be appropriate words, I'm not sure human consciousness could take in the Whole (as a 15 amp wire cannot carry 100 amps, the wire would melt in-two, thusly the purpose of circuit breakers, or fuses, or possibly becoming "unconscious"-of-self). So how would one know what "%" of the Infinite one had encountered? And, is it possible, no matter what one did encounter, to further encounter ~that %~ +? (IOW, is it possible to increase one's capacity to encounter more of the Whole?) I'm just raising questions. As far as samskaras, I think one's life and behavior would be the measure of any nasty samskaras hanging around (but for various reasons even that is not an absolute measure). But what I would say is don't take an experience (or non-experience) as a measure to base one's life on, as after-encounter is just that, after, that was then, this is now. But more significantly, don't take a report of another's "sudden encounter" to be validation for your living as if everything is "under infinite control". This would be a kind of second hand living. As previously stated, not all directed to ZD, but is somewhat a further reply to bluey (and of course anyone else who happens to read). |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 15, 2016 13:58:02 GMT -5
[/quote]I certainly agree almost anyone out of the blue can "suddenly encounter" (those words alone are a significant hint) something absolutely significant. I'm not sure the Infinite would be appropriate words, I'm not sure human consciousness could take in the Whole (as a 15 amp wire cannot carry 100 amps, the wire would melt in-two, thusly the purpose of circuit breakers, or fuses, or possibly becoming "unconscious"-of-self). So how would one know what "%" of the Infinite one had encountered? And, is it possible, no matter what one did encounter, to further encounter ~that %~ +? (IOW, is it possible to increase one's capacity to encounter more of the Whole?) I'm just raising questions. As far as samskaras, I think one's life and behavior would be the measure of any nasty samskaras hanging around (but for various reasons even that is not an absolute measure). But what I would say is don't take an experience (or non-experience) as a measure to base one's life on, as after-encounter is just that, after, that was then, this is now. But more significantly, don't take a report of another's "sudden encounter" to be validation for your living as if everything is "under infinite control". This would be a kind of second hand living.
As previously stated, not all directed to ZD, but is somewhat a further reply to bluey (and of course anyone else who happens to read). [/quote]
Human consciousness cannot begin to take in the Whole. It can only take in the tiniest fraction of a fraction of the Whole, but that tiny fraction instantly puts everything into perspective. The mind becomes informed of its microscopic insignificance in relation to THAT, and is thereby humbled. The idea that mind might be able to increase its capacity to encounter more of THAT would never arise. It would be like asking, "Can a grain of sand change its relationship in size to that of an entire universe?"
I think it goes without saying that if a body/mind encounters the Whole, life is never again the same, and what was seen is never forgotten. As Kabir said, "I saw the truth for 15 seconds and became a servant for life."
I agree that one should never take someone's else's word for these types of claims, but should always seek to verify the truth for oneself.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 15, 2016 15:26:52 GMT -5
I certainly agree almost anyone out of the blue can "suddenly encounter" (those words alone are a significant hint) something absolutely significant. I'm not sure the Infinite would be appropriate words, I'm not sure human consciousness could take in the Whole (as a 15 amp wire cannot carry 100 amps, the wire would melt in-two, thusly the purpose of circuit breakers, or fuses, or possibly becoming "unconscious"-of-self). So how would one know what "%" of the Infinite one had encountered? And, is it possible, no matter what one did encounter, to further encounter ~that %~ +? (IOW, is it possible to increase one's capacity to encounter more of the Whole?) I'm just raising questions. As far as samskaras, I think one's life and behavior would be the measure of any nasty samskaras hanging around (but for various reasons even that is not an absolute measure). But what I would say is don't take an experience (or non-experience) as a measure to base one's life on, as after-encounter is just that, after, that was then, this is now. But more significantly, don't take a report of another's "sudden encounter" to be validation for your living as if everything is "under infinite control". This would be a kind of second hand living. As previously stated, not all directed to ZD, but is somewhat a further reply to bluey (and of course anyone else who happens to read). [/quote] Human consciousness cannot begin to take in the Whole. It can only take in the tiniest fraction of a fraction of the Whole, but that tiny fraction instantly puts everything into perspective. The mind becomes informed of its microscopic insignificance in relation to THAT, and is thereby humbled. The idea that mind might be able to increase its capacity to encounter more of THAT would never arise. It would be like asking, "Can a grain of sand change its relationship in size to that of an entire universe?" I think it goes without saying that if a body/mind encounters the Whole, life is never again the same, and what was seen is never forgotten. As Kabir said, "I saw the truth for 15 seconds and became a servant for life." I agree that one should never take someone's else's word for these types of claims, but should always seek to verify the truth for oneself. [/quote] I had to go back and make sure I didn't say mind might be able to increase its capacity, that would be an error. I didn't. Mind is a small part of ~what we are~. Mind is a sort of secretary. Mind is the tail that thinks it wags the dog. Otherwise, sdp likes post. |
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Post by bluey on Sept 15, 2016 21:12:12 GMT -5
Forgive the typos but I'm in Vancouver using my phone. Both stardust and zen dancer if you read back I didn't say it's impossible I said it's rare. Even a man putting out his clothes, it can happen for him. There's no fixed rule for grace to happen but like Ramana said there is the reserve karma that has to be liquidated, the sanchita karma. He has gone through that process so can talk of being the 'I' without the doer or no karma. Just as I can but what use is it to you. Try from your own effort as long as one has the discipline of not being the doer...... I'm not saying it can't be done hasn't been done but it's rare, all I am saying. The laws of karma the present prarbabdha shape your life and the agami if one is doing even a spiritual practice, reading books, thinking I'm getting somewhere from my own effort will still accumulate karma as long as one is a doer. You mentioned kabir. Like Ramana mentioned Iswara as the agent who administers and plays out the karma, body form of an individual in this play out realm. But even Ramana has missed out the very many parts we are and how the reserves get dropped in to each script role we play out. Like actors on a stage each with a role and script based on the past karma with a bit of the reserve karma thrown in especially when one is attempting to free oneself from the wheel of samsara, when we try to know the I without the doer. Kabir like Nanak, guru Arjan, Ravidas talk of iswara but use the name kal, Niranjan jyot the ruler of trikuti. Kabir repeatedly goes on to say to go beyond the ruler of this dream state the accountant the Lord of the waves, to go beyond this God (parbrahm) of your bad, good and reserve karma with a satguru, to keep the company of satsang( true company ie one who is the 'I'. He talks of keeping the company of a satguru. Sat meaning true. A true teacher, In the sense that he is not speaking from any of the stages within. As there are many stages within, so an awakened person has many deaths. Just like the non duality teachers out there, a stage within just as Jeff foster recently said It was just a stage phase he went through.......What zen dancer said on how the awakened state is, can be true in one sense for some and false for another as many Mystics were subjected to conflict from others in their time. They had little peace. Kabir in his works mentions the regions within up to sachkhand and beyond. The true realm, also the states beyond sachkhand, nirvana that is alakh, agami and anami the nameless state. The final death in to the true sense of 'I'. Why I said earlier nirvana is more like a blowing out of a candle . The mention of Jesus by stardust saying if you make your eye single your whole body shall be full of light is just the first stage. You shut the nine doors of the body hear the sound which changes as you go deeper within and the light comes from the sound to the tenth door between the eyes. That doesn't mean the awakening dissolves the storehouse of actions, it can take time depending on your development after that to meditate both on the outer and inner. Like being lost from your campfire at first you listen for any sound in the darkness, you move to the sound and then the light of the campfire is seen. These are first stages that are taught after you' get used to meditating learning scriptures in most traditions and then a few are initiated in to the deeper teaching under a true teacher. If you look back on the earlier posts it's much easier to get the darshan of a teacher from looking in to his/ her eyes. As one look is better than years of meditation from your side.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 16, 2016 6:42:34 GMT -5
Thanks bluey...
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Post by bluey on Nov 22, 2016 19:07:28 GMT -5
It's just a sharing stardust. I read your post whilst I was in Canada on how you were looking after your parents I was moved on how you were looking after them. Notice how no words enter when you are moved to care for loved ones, a stranger just the spontaneity to love, to get up and move, serve and care without an agenda, nothing for oneself . There's a beauty in serving being less than in service to another. Why in the Bhakti tradition seva service with nothing for oneself was administered. It can be a great tool to the beyond better than reading books attending satsangs. Just the time to attend to another with no thought for oneself, to feel the heart really open that mto feel I am that I serve that. Spontaneity.....why when I read your posts the word arises.
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