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Post by laughter on Nov 6, 2015 5:22:58 GMT -5
Reminds me of what I've been reading on Shikan Taza. The Zen sources concentrate on sense perception, on what comes to the forefront. Of course, if one keeps their eyes open when doing what Niz suggests here (as opposed to directing attention inward), the world in raw form will of course rush in. A particular woo-woo effect I've noticed in these instances is a sort of personification of my surroundings, as if the room is staring back at me. Only happens indoors. I've experienced my surroundings morphing into different changing shapes and patterns. My guess is that mind jumps in to try and make some sort of sense of things (hence my patterns and perhaps your personification). Yes, certainly in the case of the personification thingy there is at least some sort of rearrangement of the mental furniture.  The closest thing to the morphing shapes I've encountered is with a different form of meditation, with attention directed inward. Usually I do that with my eyes closed, but sometimes with them open the visual field will sort of dissolve. I don't really think that's mind interposing, but rather instead, getting out of the way. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 16, 2015 9:56:09 GMT -5
Niz: "As long as you have not become quiet, there is no experience of the mindless state. You have become attached to the known and, hence, you do not notice the knower. He is beyond consciousness. When you realize consciousness, you will know that you are beyond it. Mind is Maya, and mind is thoughts."
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Post by laughter on Nov 16, 2015 10:37:31 GMT -5
Niz: "As long as you have not become quiet, there is no experience of the mindless state. You have become attached to the known and, hence, you do not notice the knower. He is beyond consciousness. When you realize consciousness, you will know that you are beyond it. Mind is Maya, and mind is thoughts." It's funny how some peeps complain that advice like this vilifies mind, but really, it's just an invitation to get quiet and see and hear what's really goin' on. It's not like the mind ain't there when you want or need it .. but it's very possible for it not to be there otherwise. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 16, 2015 10:46:45 GMT -5
Niz: "As long as you have not become quiet, there is no experience of the mindless state. You have become attached to the known and, hence, you do not notice the knower. He is beyond consciousness. When you realize consciousness, you will know that you are beyond it. Mind is Maya, and mind is thoughts." It's funny how some peeps complain that advice like this vilifies mind, but really, it's just an invitation to get quiet and see and hear what's really goin' on. It's not like the mind ain't there when you want or need it .. but it's very possible for it not to be there otherwise. Exactly! |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 16, 2015 19:18:38 GMT -5
Niz: "Between the remembered and the actual there is a basic difference which can be observed from moment to moment. At no point of time is the actual remembered. A moment back… the remembered was actual; in a moment… the actual will be the remembered. What makes the actual unique? Obviously it is your sense of being present. In memory and anticipation there is a clear feeling that it is a mental state under observation, while in the actual the feeling is primarily of being present and aware."
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Post by laughter on Nov 16, 2015 20:10:13 GMT -5
Niz: "Between the remembered and the actual there is a basic difference which can be observed from moment to moment. At no point of time is the actual remembered. A moment back… the remembered was actual; in a moment… the actual will be the remembered. What makes the actual unique? Obviously it is your sense of being present. In memory and anticipation there is a clear feeling that it is a mental state under observation, while in the actual the feeling is primarily of being present and aware." That's about as simple as simple gets. Peeps all have a reference for the here and now. Every one of them. Some of them though seem to be like "that? nah, that can't be it. that's boring! It's gotta' be all like woo-woo spectacular and fireworks and stuff." Like the nose on their faces. Like Shaun's movie title, "Closer Than Close". |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 18, 2015 19:14:18 GMT -5
Niz: ""The whole is real, the part comes and goes. The particular is born and reborn, changing name and shape, the jnani is the Changeless Reality which makes the changeful possible."
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Post by laughter on Nov 18, 2015 20:22:41 GMT -5
Niz: ""The whole is real, the part comes and goes. The particular is born and reborn, changing name and shape, the jnani is the Changeless Reality which makes the changeful possible." Echoed years later: "Do you hear that dog barking in the distance? Or that car passing by? Listen carefully. Can you feel the presence of the Unmanifested in that? You can't? Look for it in the silence out of which the sounds come and in into which they return. Pay more attention to the silence than to the sounds. Paying attention to outer silence creates inner silence: the mind becomes still. A portal is opening up. Every sound is born out of silence, dies back into silence, and during its life span is surrounded by silence. Silence enables the sound to be. It is an intrinsic but unmanifested part of every sound, every musical note, every song, every word. The Unmanifested is present in this world as silence." "Just as no sound can exist without silence, nothing can exist without no-thing, without the empty space that enables it to be. Every physical object or body has come out of nothing, is surrounded by nothing, and will eventually return to nothing. Not only that, but even inside every physical body there is far more 'nothing' than 'something'." "The Unmanifested is not only present in this world as silence; it also pervades the entire physical universe as space -- from within and without. This is just as easy to miss as silence. Everybody pays attention to the things in space, but who pays attention to space itself?" Tolle, para's 22-25 Chapter 7 of "The Power of Now" |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 18, 2015 20:43:36 GMT -5
Niz: ""The whole is real, the part comes and goes. The particular is born and reborn, changing name and shape, the jnani is the Changeless Reality which makes the changeful possible." Echoed years later: "Do you hear that dog barking in the distance? Or that car passing by? Listen carefully. Can you feel the presence of the Unmanifested in that? You can't? Look for it in the silence out of which the sounds come and in into which they return. Pay more attention to the silence than to the sounds. Paying attention to outer silence creates inner silence: the mind becomes still. A portal is opening up. Every sound is born out of silence, dies back into silence, and during its life span is surrounded by silence. Silence enables the sound to be. It is an intrinsic but unmanifested part of every sound, every musical note, every song, every word. The Unmanifested is present in this world as silence." "Just as no sound can exist without silence, nothing can exist without no-thing, without the empty space that enables it to be. Every physical object or body has come out of nothing, is surrounded by nothing, and will eventually return to nothing. Not only that, but even inside every physical body there is far more 'nothing' than 'something'." "The Unmanifested is not only present in this world as silence; it also pervades the entire physical universe as space -- from within and without. This is just as easy to miss as silence. Everybody pays attention to the things in space, but who pays attention to space itself?" Tolle, para's 22-25 Chapter 7 of "The Power of Now"Love, love, love that! The last quote in particular! |
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Post by zin on Nov 19, 2015 3:04:06 GMT -5
Niz: ""The whole is real, the part comes and goes. The particular is born and reborn, changing name and shape, the jnani is the Changeless Reality which makes the changeful possible." Echoed years later: "Do you hear that dog barking in the distance? Or that car passing by? Listen carefully. Can you feel the presence of the Unmanifested in that? You can't? Look for it in the silence out of which the sounds come and in into which they return. Pay more attention to the silence than to the sounds. Paying attention to outer silence creates inner silence: the mind becomes still. A portal is opening up. Every sound is born out of silence, dies back into silence, and during its life span is surrounded by silence. Silence enables the sound to be. It is an intrinsic but unmanifested part of every sound, every musical note, every song, every word. The Unmanifested is present in this world as silence." "Just as no sound can exist without silence, nothing can exist without no-thing, without the empty space that enables it to be. Every physical object or body has come out of nothing, is surrounded by nothing, and will eventually return to nothing. Not only that, but even inside every physical body there is far more 'nothing' than 'something'." "The Unmanifested is not only present in this world as silence; it also pervades the entire physical universe as space -- from within and without. This is just as easy to miss as silence. Everybody pays attention to the things in space, but who pays attention to space itself?" Tolle, para's 22-25 Chapter 7 of "The Power of Now" |
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Post by zin on Nov 19, 2015 3:12:52 GMT -5
Echoed years later: "Do you hear that dog barking in the distance? Or that car passing by? Listen carefully. Can you feel the presence of the Unmanifested in that? You can't? Look for it in the silence out of which the sounds come and in into which they return. Pay more attention to the silence than to the sounds. Paying attention to outer silence creates inner silence: the mind becomes still. A portal is opening up. Every sound is born out of silence, dies back into silence, and during its life span is surrounded by silence. Silence enables the sound to be. It is an intrinsic but unmanifested part of every sound, every musical note, every song, every word. The Unmanifested is present in this world as silence." "Just as no sound can exist without silence, nothing can exist without no-thing, without the empty space that enables it to be. Every physical object or body has come out of nothing, is surrounded by nothing, and will eventually return to nothing. Not only that, but even inside every physical body there is far more 'nothing' than 'something'." "The Unmanifested is not only present in this world as silence; it also pervades the entire physical universe as space -- from within and without. This is just as easy to miss as silence. Everybody pays attention to the things in space, but who pays attention to space itself?" Tolle, para's 22-25 Chapter 7 of "The Power of Now"Love, love, love that! The last quote in particular! I understand that Tolle speaks about space of both our daily life and also the outer space - I'll tell something I thought while watching the movie Martian. I was thinking, why are there soo big distances between planets and/or other things of space?.. Then I looked at the man who was left alone on that planet and it seemed like an enviable situation to me; I wondered, why? I realized that it had to do with getting rid of countless influences acting on me in life.. (at least, the effect of the scenes was this on me). The man had the opportunity to start over there.. Opportunity to do something new! He could examine the vast empty area and say, "let's try something and look at what will come up!" Whatever he would do would be a new creation : ) ...Of course the thing about influences is not so grave that one planet is necessary per person! But influences on cosmic scale must be very great, so great distance is necessary (for new things to occur)! I might add "Especially if all the history of creation is floating somewhere there" but this is not important here really. (*end of the theory*) |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 19, 2015 9:02:49 GMT -5
Love, love, love that! The last quote in particular! I understand that Tolle speaks about space of both our daily life and also the outer space - I'll tell something I thought while watching the movie Martian. I was thinking, why are there soo big distances between planets and/or other things of space?.. Then I looked at the man who was left alone on that planet and it seemed like an enviable situation to me; I wondered, why? I realized that it had to do with getting rid of countless influences acting on me in life.. (at least, the effect of the scenes was this on me). The man had the opportunity to start over there.. Opportunity to do something new! He could examine the vast empty area and say, "let's try something and look at what will come up!" Whatever he would do would be a new creation : ) ...Of course the thing about influences is not so grave that one planet is necessary per person! But influences on cosmic scale must be very great, so great distance is necessary (for new things to occur)! I might add "Especially if all the history of creation is floating somewhere there" but this is not important here really. (*end of the theory*)One of the more interesting aspects of space is revealed when we pay attention to it. For example, right now notice the space between your eyes and the computer screen in front of you. Simply stop what you are doing and pay attention to the space right there between you and the computer screen for a few moments. I'll wait.... Did you notice anything? |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 19, 2015 9:03:51 GMT -5
Niz: "As long as you are a beginner certain formalized meditations, or prayers, may be good for you. But for a seeker for reality there is only one meditation... the rigorous refusal to harbour thoughts. To be free from thoughts is itself meditation. You begin by letting thoughts flow and watching them. The very observation slows down the mind until it stops altogether. Once the mind is quiet, keep it quiet. Do not get bored with peace, be in it, go deeper into it. Experiment anew, do not go by past experience. Watch your thoughts and watch yourself watching the thoughts. The state of freedom from all thoughts will happen suddenly and by the bliss of it you shall recognize it."
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Post by zin on Nov 19, 2015 9:37:57 GMT -5
I understand that Tolle speaks about space of both our daily life and also the outer space - I'll tell something I thought while watching the movie Martian. I was thinking, why are there soo big distances between planets and/or other things of space?.. Then I looked at the man who was left alone on that planet and it seemed like an enviable situation to me; I wondered, why? I realized that it had to do with getting rid of countless influences acting on me in life.. (at least, the effect of the scenes was this on me). The man had the opportunity to start over there.. Opportunity to do something new! He could examine the vast empty area and say, "let's try something and look at what will come up!" Whatever he would do would be a new creation : ) ...Of course the thing about influences is not so grave that one planet is necessary per person! But influences on cosmic scale must be very great, so great distance is necessary (for new things to occur)! I might add "Especially if all the history of creation is floating somewhere there" but this is not important here really. (*end of the theory*)One of the more interesting aspects of space is revealed when we pay attention to it. For example, right now notice the space between your eyes and the computer screen in front of you. Simply stop what you are doing and pay attention to the space right there between you and the computer screen for a few moments. I'll wait.... Did you notice anything? I noticed myself! |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 19, 2015 9:41:37 GMT -5
One of the more interesting aspects of space is revealed when we pay attention to it. For example, right now notice the space between your eyes and the computer screen in front of you. Simply stop what you are doing and pay attention to the space right there between you and the computer screen for a few moments. I'll wait.... Did you notice anything? I noticed myself! Were you quiet? Did thinking stop? |
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