Post by wtf on Sept 28, 2011 8:49:21 GMT -5
Hi,
I'm new, and I just wanted to say something about this particular response to Nathaniel's novella...
I'm sorry to be such a pedant, but I just wanted to draw your attention to the descriptions of "voidness" which Franklin Merrell-Wolff gave in his writings (a teacher who is rated 5 stars on this site!).
He mentions that the term "voidness" is used because Pure Consciousness cannot be conceived, therefore it appears as a void to our relative consciousness (Nisargadatta says something similar). On Its own level, of course, it is Real (Substantial) and is Unlimited (utterly); indeed, it is pure potential of which nothing may be predicated because it is Limitless. To say it is "nothing at all" is a limitation. It is more accurate to say it is both nothing at all and everything (and I don't just mean physical things); and neither of these; and both of them; and neither neither or both; and both neither and both; and so on... It is always beyond any definition one might imagine. It is unimaginable.
Also, I know this is probably going to sound a bit anal - and possibly even patronising, though this is far from my intention - but I think it's useful to remember what the word "illusion" actually means. It is used to describe something which is not as it appears. So, while the Universe may be an illusion, this certainly doesn't mean that it "isn't". It is, however, not a self-existent, and is rather dependent upon the Consciousness which projects it. However, this "Consciousness" could hardly be a blank screen, because there would be nothing within such a blankness which could possibly creatively project anything! The "nothing" people talk about is not literally nothing which is somehow aware; it is only apparently nothing from this limited and finite point of view.
Now, I am not suggesting that I, personally, know this to be true! I am simply summarising a teaching which has done an excellent job in elucidating this most confusing subject, and I wanted to make sure people were aware of it. It is my belief that there is an erroneous sub-culture of nihilism growing within the spiritual community, and it is largely down to the teachings of some of the teachers rated on this site (such as Bernadette Roberts, U.G. Krishnamurti and some of the newer ones). All I am saying is that there are other explanations and descriptions out there which seem to go way beyond all of this and which make them seem a little off the mark.
With respect,
B
You left a lot for Shawn (and us) to read, however if I may:
The removal of hate and war is the removal of love and peace. The default state neither conscious nor unconscious, but the mean between all opposites. Consciousness must be seen for what it is -- the gateless gate. It is to be surpassed and abandoned. Completely. What remains offers zero foothold for any sort of intellectualization as what remains provides for nothing to hang one's hat upon.
The border between the superconscious Void and the multiplicity of manifested things is the I Am. The I Am is the demarcation point between nothing and everything. It's where everything resides; your various deities and every sage manifested in human form. It's also where your various religions and teachings are. They're all to be ultimately cast aside.
Jesus is not a name, but an utterance. It proclaims "I Am." That's what's to be met and destroyed. It's very essence is you, and you are to be discarded. All the foolish discussion about whether Jesus is god is answered right here. God is a euphimism for the impartial witness, the nondual noumenon. Jesus is the gate, the first spark of consciousness -- of duality. Greet Jesus and kick him to the curb. Merge with God then forget about him. There's the teaching in a nutshell.
Greet hate and kick it to the curb. Merge with the resulting "peace" whereupon both are destroyed, then forget about them. Another teaching in a nutshell.
The highest state is one of purest awareness, active and one without a second. It's the act of watching without the watcher, so forth. It is a state free from all opposites; the sage walks on all manner of terrain but leaves no footsteps. No emotion enters here because it is completely neutral. No foolish compassion, love, hate -- nothing. A void is a void and people must understand this. A void is NULL of EVERYTHING.
Try this for practice...
1. Notice that I feel bad about something.
Been reading Ken Wilber? The ego unifying exercises are right there in the second half of the book and you describe them verbatim.
-
I'm new, and I just wanted to say something about this particular response to Nathaniel's novella...
I'm sorry to be such a pedant, but I just wanted to draw your attention to the descriptions of "voidness" which Franklin Merrell-Wolff gave in his writings (a teacher who is rated 5 stars on this site!).
He mentions that the term "voidness" is used because Pure Consciousness cannot be conceived, therefore it appears as a void to our relative consciousness (Nisargadatta says something similar). On Its own level, of course, it is Real (Substantial) and is Unlimited (utterly); indeed, it is pure potential of which nothing may be predicated because it is Limitless. To say it is "nothing at all" is a limitation. It is more accurate to say it is both nothing at all and everything (and I don't just mean physical things); and neither of these; and both of them; and neither neither or both; and both neither and both; and so on... It is always beyond any definition one might imagine. It is unimaginable.
Also, I know this is probably going to sound a bit anal - and possibly even patronising, though this is far from my intention - but I think it's useful to remember what the word "illusion" actually means. It is used to describe something which is not as it appears. So, while the Universe may be an illusion, this certainly doesn't mean that it "isn't". It is, however, not a self-existent, and is rather dependent upon the Consciousness which projects it. However, this "Consciousness" could hardly be a blank screen, because there would be nothing within such a blankness which could possibly creatively project anything! The "nothing" people talk about is not literally nothing which is somehow aware; it is only apparently nothing from this limited and finite point of view.
Now, I am not suggesting that I, personally, know this to be true! I am simply summarising a teaching which has done an excellent job in elucidating this most confusing subject, and I wanted to make sure people were aware of it. It is my belief that there is an erroneous sub-culture of nihilism growing within the spiritual community, and it is largely down to the teachings of some of the teachers rated on this site (such as Bernadette Roberts, U.G. Krishnamurti and some of the newer ones). All I am saying is that there are other explanations and descriptions out there which seem to go way beyond all of this and which make them seem a little off the mark.
With respect,
B
May 5, 2009 22:52:48 GMT -5 @The Uncreated said:
Mar 20, 2009 12:25:22 GMT -5 @Nathaniel said:
Love and Peace are not the polar opposites of hate and war. Peace and Love are merely the direct consequence of removing the barriers to them. Peaceful and Loving are, in fact, the default states of human consciousness.You left a lot for Shawn (and us) to read, however if I may:
The removal of hate and war is the removal of love and peace. The default state neither conscious nor unconscious, but the mean between all opposites. Consciousness must be seen for what it is -- the gateless gate. It is to be surpassed and abandoned. Completely. What remains offers zero foothold for any sort of intellectualization as what remains provides for nothing to hang one's hat upon.
The border between the superconscious Void and the multiplicity of manifested things is the I Am. The I Am is the demarcation point between nothing and everything. It's where everything resides; your various deities and every sage manifested in human form. It's also where your various religions and teachings are. They're all to be ultimately cast aside.
Jesus is not a name, but an utterance. It proclaims "I Am." That's what's to be met and destroyed. It's very essence is you, and you are to be discarded. All the foolish discussion about whether Jesus is god is answered right here. God is a euphimism for the impartial witness, the nondual noumenon. Jesus is the gate, the first spark of consciousness -- of duality. Greet Jesus and kick him to the curb. Merge with God then forget about him. There's the teaching in a nutshell.
Greet hate and kick it to the curb. Merge with the resulting "peace" whereupon both are destroyed, then forget about them. Another teaching in a nutshell.
The highest state is one of purest awareness, active and one without a second. It's the act of watching without the watcher, so forth. It is a state free from all opposites; the sage walks on all manner of terrain but leaves no footsteps. No emotion enters here because it is completely neutral. No foolish compassion, love, hate -- nothing. A void is a void and people must understand this. A void is NULL of EVERYTHING.
Try this for practice...
1. Notice that I feel bad about something.
Been reading Ken Wilber? The ego unifying exercises are right there in the second half of the book and you describe them verbatim.
-
