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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 18:19:33 GMT -5
Silence--why bother trying? I mean that as a serious question. What's in it for you and E. to carry on these discussions with Andrew? Does there have to be something that we personally get out of it? Hahaha |
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Post by onehandclapping on Feb 22, 2012 18:21:23 GMT -5
So we can add 'pointing' to the list too. All pointing is ego, so it means nothing. Nobody has said this conversation is an experience of perfect harmony. This is you labeling it as disharmony and suffering from your labels. Yes, in my definition, if it aint harmony there is at least some degree of suffering. If it aint peace, there is some degree of war. There is suffering playing itself out right here.  War and peace are the same thing is you no longer expect them to be defined as war and peace. War becomes just what is happening now. Peace becomes what is happening now. No attachment to something being different so no suffering. Maybe that is not the case for you. Maybe you lose sleep over these conversations on here. Ponder on them when you are no where near your computer. Obsess over what kind of responses you will get from your posts. Imagining responses and what you are then going to respond back. I got a feeling for enigma and others on here, myself included, we type what flows out in the moment and don't think about it beyond that. We don't suffer over anything said on here. It's just THIS happening. |
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Post by silence on Feb 22, 2012 18:21:43 GMT -5
Okay, you're less deluded now. I can understand that. I don't understand saying you're not interested in becoming conscious because that would require 'one' to be conscious and then saying there was a you who already did become conscious. And then on top of that saying all humans are unconscious. Silence--why bother trying? I mean that as a serious question. What's in it for you and E. to carry on these discussions with Andrew? There's just an interest to participate and so I do. Some days there isn't any interest to participate here. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 18:25:31 GMT -5
Yes, in my definition, if it aint harmony there is at least some degree of suffering. If it aint peace, there is some degree of war. There is suffering playing itself out right here. War and peace are the same thing is you no longer expect them to be defined as war and peace. War becomes just what is happening now. Peace becomes what is happening now. No attachment to something being different so no suffering. Maybe that is not the case for you. Maybe you lose sleep over these conversations on here. Ponder on them when you are no where near your computer. Obsess over what kind of responses you will get from your posts. Imagining responses and what you are then going to respond back. I got a feeling for enigma and others on here, myself included, we type what flows out in the moment and don't think about it beyond that. We don't suffer over anything said on here. It's just THIS happening. There may not be any thought about it beyond the moment, releasing is also happening here very fast (hence why I could probably do this all night if needs be), but there is still a sense of disagreement, or arguing, of discordance. There is a whole bunch of projecting going on. Ego is playing itself out. War to me is different to peace. War is like...two or more people competing, fighting, wanting to be right, disagreement, discordance, resistance, conditional love. Peace is harmony, ease, resonance, lightness, unconditional love. If it aint peace (which is really the foundation), then there is some degree of war. As it is on here. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 18:26:41 GMT -5
Silence--why bother trying? I mean that as a serious question. What's in it for you and E. to carry on these discussions with Andrew? There's just an interest to participate and so I do. Some days there isn't any interest to participate here. Look closely at the interest and see what the interests are. |
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Post by onehandclapping on Feb 22, 2012 18:32:23 GMT -5
If there is no attachment to what is being said how can there be suffering? War and peace are the same thing is you no longer expect them to be defined as war and peace. War becomes just what is happening now. Peace becomes what is happening now. No attachment to something being different so no suffering. Maybe that is not the case for you. Maybe you lose sleep over these conversations on here. Ponder on them when you are no where near your computer. Obsess over what kind of responses you will get from your posts. Imagining responses and what you are then going to respond back. I got a feeling for enigma and others on here, myself included, we type what flows out in the moment and don't think about it beyond that. We don't suffer over anything said on here. It's just THIS happening. There may not be any thought about it beyond the moment, I am also releasing as fast as it arises, but there is still a sense of disagreement, or arguing, of discordance. There is a whole bunch of projecting going on. Ego is playing itself out. War to me is different to peace. War is like...two or more people competing, fighting, wanting to be right, disagreement, discordance, resistance, conditional love. Peace is harmony, ease, resonance, lightness, unconditional love. If it aint peace (which is really the foundation), then there is some degree of war. As it is on here. Can you see how "there is still a sense of disagreement, or arguing, of discordance" is a projection by you on to the words and conversations? Could the conversations be labeled as wars? Sure, cause you are labeling them that. Could they be label-less and still say the exact same thing?? Yes, cause that is how others experience/perceive them. Maybe you should do some searching into why it is you think peace needs to be harmony, ease, resonance, lightness, and unconditional love. Peace exists in all of their opposites if you look for it.  |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 22, 2012 18:35:08 GMT -5
Silence--why bother trying? I mean that as a serious question. What's in it for you and E. to carry on these discussions with Andrew? There's just an interest to participate and so I do. Some days there isn't any interest to participate here. K. I experience the same thing. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 18:40:05 GMT -5
There may not be any thought about it beyond the moment, I am also releasing as fast as it arises, but there is still a sense of disagreement, or arguing, of discordance. There is a whole bunch of projecting going on. Ego is playing itself out. War to me is different to peace. War is like...two or more people competing, fighting, wanting to be right, disagreement, discordance, resistance, conditional love. Peace is harmony, ease, resonance, lightness, unconditional love. If it aint peace (which is really the foundation), then there is some degree of war. As it is on here. Can you see how "there is still a sense of disagreement, or arguing, of discordance" is a projection by you on to the words and conversations? Could the conversations be labeled as wars? Sure, cause you are labeling them that. Could they be label-less and still say the exact same thing?? Yes, cause that is how others experience/perceive them. Maybe you should do some searching into why it is you think peace needs to be harmony, ease, resonance, lightness, and unconditional love. Peace exists in all of their opposites if you look for it. Maybe you should look closely and see that you are projecting here also and in a subtle way, you are arguing and are in discordance with what I said. Peace is foundational and for that reason opposites are an illusion (of the human mind). However, our reality and experience IS of opposites (because of the human mind), and so practically speaking, for all intensive purposes, it is ludicrous to say that there is harmony and peace in rape and war and greed. I can say there is peace in rape abstractly but really its pretentious enlightened BS. Here on the forum, the same egoic stuff is being played out just as it is everywhere in the world. Suffering is happening. |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 22, 2012 18:41:29 GMT -5
Silence--why bother trying? I mean that as a serious question. What's in it for you and E. to carry on these discussions with Andrew? Does there have to be something that we personally get out of it? No. Just wonderin' why you seem to be expending so much effort to convince someone of something that they obviously are not convinced of. Moreso you than silence, of course. I wonder the same about X, with his tenacity to call Steve out on his apparent misdeeds (for lack of a better term). I mean, what's the point? Is it that you like to talk to brick walls? Doyou enjoy noticing others' errors? Does it come from a deep desire to help, no matter whether someone listens to you, or not? Sincere question. |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 22, 2012 18:47:48 GMT -5
No. Just wonderin' why you seem to be expending so much effort to convince someone of something that they obviously are not convinced of. Moreso you than silence, of course. I wonder the same about X, with his tenacity to call Steve out on his apparent misdeeds (for lack of a better term). I mean, what's the point? Is it that you like to talk to brick walls? Doyou enjoy noticing others' errors? Does it come from a deep desire to help, no matter whether someone listens to you, or not? Sincere question. I did not perceive any 'misdeeds' from Steven. He seem to be acting Honorably to me. Please identify the misdeeds you perceive. Not me, FJ, it's X whose been determined to point out whatever has been going on with him. Whatever has happened, I'm not worried about it in the slightest. |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 22, 2012 18:51:11 GMT -5
Not me, FJ, it's X whose been determined to point out whatever has been going on with him. Whatever has happened, I'm not worried about it in the slightest. Wasn't sure. But I keep reading all these seemingly negative remarks. Why dontcha ask the ones who are making the seemingly negative remarks. That's kinda what I was doing with the original question here (though I don't consider E.'s and Silence's questioning of Andrew 'negative remarks'). |
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Post by silence on Feb 22, 2012 18:57:52 GMT -5
Can you see how "there is still a sense of disagreement, or arguing, of discordance" is a projection by you on to the words and conversations? Could the conversations be labeled as wars? Sure, cause you are labeling them that. Could they be label-less and still say the exact same thing?? Yes, cause that is how others experience/perceive them. Maybe you should do some searching into why it is you think peace needs to be harmony, ease, resonance, lightness, and unconditional love. Peace exists in all of their opposites if you look for it. Maybe you should look closely and see that you are projecting here also and in a subtle way, you are arguing and are in discordance with what I said. Peace is foundational and for that reason opposites are an illusion (of the human mind). However, our reality and experience IS of opposites (because of the human mind), and so practically speaking, for all intensive purposes, it is ludicrous to say that there is harmony and peace in rape and war and greed. I can say there is peace in rape abstractly but really its pretentious enlightened BS. Here on the forum, the same egoic stuff is being played out just as it is everywhere in the world. Suffering is happening. Suffering is happening for you by the hand of your belief in your own ideas. Those ideas get more and more wild as they do with others the closer they get to seeing with a bit of clarity. Now we're here discussing rape when all it was really about was you being unable to conceive of folks participating on a forum where disagreement was happening without suffering. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2012 19:03:32 GMT -5
Maybe you should look closely and see that you are projecting here also and in a subtle way, you are arguing and are in discordance with what I said. Peace is foundational and for that reason opposites are an illusion (of the human mind). However, our reality and experience IS of opposites (because of the human mind), and so practically speaking, for all intensive purposes, it is ludicrous to say that there is harmony and peace in rape and war and greed. I can say there is peace in rape abstractly but really its pretentious enlightened BS. Here on the forum, the same egoic stuff is being played out just as it is everywhere in the world. Suffering is happening. Suffering is happening for you by the hand of your belief in your own ideas. Those ideas get more and more wild as they do with others the closer they get to seeing with a bit of clarity. Now we're here discussing rape when all it was really about was you being unable to conceive of folks participating on a forum where disagreement was happening without suffering. What Im illustrating is that agreement and disagreement is part OF suffering. What is happening on here is an intellectual and spiritual version of what goes on in political arenas which lead to outright war and suggesting that there is harmony in war (and rape) is somewhat ridiculous. Its the same ego and unconsciousness playing out on here as it is in any political arena. |
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Post by onehandclapping on Feb 22, 2012 19:06:56 GMT -5
Can you see how "there is still a sense of disagreement, or arguing, of discordance" is a projection by you on to the words and conversations? Could the conversations be labeled as wars? Sure, cause you are labeling them that. Could they be label-less and still say the exact same thing?? Yes, cause that is how others experience/perceive them. Maybe you should do some searching into why it is you think peace needs to be harmony, ease, resonance, lightness, and unconditional love. Peace exists in all of their opposites if you look for it. Maybe you should look closely and see that you are projecting here also and in a subtle way, you are arguing and are in discordance with what I said. Peace is foundational and for that reason opposites are an illusion (of the human mind). However, our reality and experience IS of opposites (because of the human mind), and so practically speaking, for all intensive purposes, it is ludicrous to say that there is harmony and peace in rape and war and greed. I can say there is peace in rape abstractly but really its pretentious enlightened BS. Here on the forum, the same egoic stuff is being played out just as it is everywhere in the world. Suffering is happening. Well in the words of university of Indiana's old coach Bob Knight, "if you are getting raped and can't do anything to stop it, you might as well lay back and enjoy it". The action of rape is only negative if you were expecting something else to happen. Otherwise it's just another expression of THIS. Same as getting a hug from your grandmother. I agree my words in the world of form are considered by most to be in discordance with yours. But when taking a more broad approach it can be seen that we are simply two sides of a single sided coin talking about the coin. Discordance then melts away. For me conversation is happening. You call it disagreeing. I call it conversation. Do you feel like you are being attacked when we conversate? |
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Post by onehandclapping on Feb 22, 2012 19:10:18 GMT -5
Suffering is happening for you by the hand of your belief in your own ideas. Those ideas get more and more wild as they do with others the closer they get to seeing with a bit of clarity. Now we're here discussing rape when all it was really about was you being unable to conceive of folks participating on a forum where disagreement was happening without suffering. I gotta say you nailed it. Pun intended.  |
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