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Feb 5, 2012 9:04:48 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Feb 5, 2012 9:04:48 GMT -5
I know exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying that not-knowing is the way, and that anyone who gives up knowing will know exactly why I'm saying what I'm saying. Jus sayin.'
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Feb 5, 2012 9:16:20 GMT -5
Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 9:16:20 GMT -5
Isnt knowing that we dont know what we are saying about anything still knowing something? I say no. I don't see it as 'knowing' that we don't know anything, but rather an admission to ourselves, that of ourselves, we can't know anything. Besides, knowing something, and knowing what we're saying are two different things. We can say something that we don't know anything about, nor even why we say it. This happens when we allow ourselves to become a vessel. Isnt this admission to ourselves that we cant know anything just another idea though? I think its possible that maybe we can know something.... Dont get me wrong, there are times when I read something and have the thought that I really dont know, in which case I dont reply. But the idea that I cant know anything is generally not a guiding principle for me. I have sometimes seen that guiding principle as a way of keeping oneself separate from ideas and thought. It can be a bit of a mind game sometimes.....kind of like....'I know that I dont know so I wont say anything but I am going to criticize anyone who looks like they think they know something'. |
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Feb 5, 2012 9:27:35 GMT -5
Post by Beingist on Feb 5, 2012 9:27:35 GMT -5
I say no. I don't see it as 'knowing' that we don't know anything, but rather an admission to ourselves, that of ourselves, we can't know anything. Besides, knowing something, and knowing what we're saying are two different things. We can say something that we don't know anything about, nor even why we say it. This happens when we allow ourselves to become a vessel. Isnt this admission to ourselves that we cant know anything just another idea though? I think its possible that maybe we can know something.... Sure--the idea that we can't know anything of ourselves, is still just an idea, but that's all that can be expressed, really, in the three dimensional world. How else can one explain anything? That said, I also think its possible to 'know' something, but only in the sense that THIS can only 'know' Itself. It's a frame of reference thing, I think. I simply can't speak to this.  |
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Feb 5, 2012 9:40:09 GMT -5
Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 9:40:09 GMT -5
Isnt this admission to ourselves that we cant know anything just another idea though? I think its possible that maybe we can know something.... Sure--the idea that we can't know anything of ourselves, is still just an idea, but that's all that can be expressed, really, in the three dimensional world. How else can one explain anything? That said, I also think its possible to 'know' something, but only in the sense that THIS can only 'know' Itself. It's a frame of reference thing, I think. I simply can't speak to this. Just to be clear, I wasnt suggesting you do that, I was casting my mind back to an old forum when a friend went through a phase in which he would leap on pretty much anything that was said that implied that something was known. He got over it. I guess what Im saying is that the idea that 'I know nothing' can be used to perpetuate separation, and actually its another knowing. Maybe we do know something, maybe we dont. Maybe there is one who could know something, maybe there isnt. I didnt really understand your first paragraph, sorry. If you fancy it, can you run it by me again a different way? |
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Feb 5, 2012 11:18:12 GMT -5
Post by exactamente on Feb 5, 2012 11:18:12 GMT -5
I know exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying that not-knowing is the way, and that anyone who gives up knowing will know exactly why I'm saying what I'm saying. Jus sayin.' I'm sure some might accuse you of spewing tautological nonsense.  |
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Basics
Feb 5, 2012 11:49:18 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 11:49:18 GMT -5
Do any of us honestly really know what we're saying about anything this forum? nope. "honestly know" almost seems oxymoronic. honesty and knowing are both pointers where the concepts true honesty and true knowing don't exist. so anything put up on this forum is second and third hand. |
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Feb 5, 2012 12:00:17 GMT -5
Post by Beingist on Feb 5, 2012 12:00:17 GMT -5
Sure--the idea that we can't know anything of ourselves, is still just an idea, but that's all that can be expressed, really, in the three dimensional world. How else can one explain anything? That said, I also think its possible to 'know' something, but only in the sense that THIS can only 'know' Itself. It's a frame of reference thing, I think. I didnt really understand your first paragraph, sorry. If you fancy it, can you run it by me again a different way? I was only saying that all we can 'know' is that we are. All is. And so, to me, any real 'knowing' can only be through that. Beyond that are things like ideas, which is what we write here, as a matter of expression. It's not what we are. Therefore, all there can be is ideas that are not true, and are not knowledge. |
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Feb 5, 2012 13:05:13 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 13:05:13 GMT -5
Isnt knowing that we dont know what we are saying about anything still knowing something? I say no. I don't see it as 'knowing' that we don't know anything, but rather an admission to ourselves, that of ourselves, we can't know anything. Besides, knowing something, and knowing what we're saying are two different things. We can say something that we don't know anything about, nor even why we say it. This happens when we allow ourselves to become a vessel. I say it's the realization that there is ultimately nothing to know, (Nothing is ultimately true) which is not the knowing of some knowledge. It's the seeing of the limited nature of all knowledge. The idea that 'knowing we don't know is knowledge', is really just mind spinning up to infinity and beyond. |
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Feb 5, 2012 13:15:30 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 13:15:30 GMT -5
I know exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying that not-knowing is the way, and that anyone who gives up knowing will know exactly why I'm saying what I'm saying. Jus sayin.' And I know yer right! |
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Feb 5, 2012 13:20:18 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 13:20:18 GMT -5
I know exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying that not-knowing is the way, and that anyone who gives up knowing will know exactly why I'm saying what I'm saying. Jus sayin.' I'm sure some might accuse you of spewing tautological nonsense. I think someone will accuse him of contradicting himself. |
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Feb 5, 2012 13:24:43 GMT -5
Post by Beingist on Feb 5, 2012 13:24:43 GMT -5
I say no. I don't see it as 'knowing' that we don't know anything, but rather an admission to ourselves, that of ourselves, we can't know anything. Besides, knowing something, and knowing what we're saying are two different things. We can say something that we don't know anything about, nor even why we say it. This happens when we allow ourselves to become a vessel. I say it's the realization that there is ultimately nothing to know, (Nothing is ultimately true) which is not the knowing of some knowledge. It's the seeing of the limited nature of all knowledge. The idea that 'knowing we don't know is knowledge', is really just mind spinning up to infinity and beyond. Works for me  I've already said that I don't know jack, so I can't stand by anything I say, anymore. ;D |
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Feb 5, 2012 13:29:52 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 13:29:52 GMT -5
Do any of us honestly really know what we're saying about anything this forum? nope. "honestly know" almost seems oxymoronic. honesty and knowing are both pointers where the concepts true honesty and true knowing don't exist. so anything put up on this forum is second and third hand. Well, conceptualizing such things certainly happens, and one can be honest in the sense of saying what they believe to be true. I would say some peeps put up first hand knowings here. I agree with at least some of what Andrew is saying in that usually peeps are misconceiving what 'not knowing' means and are using the idea to try to escape their ideas. |
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Feb 5, 2012 13:34:02 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 13:34:02 GMT -5
I say it's the realization that there is ultimately nothing to know, (Nothing is ultimately true) which is not the knowing of some knowledge. It's the seeing of the limited nature of all knowledge. The idea that 'knowing we don't know is knowledge', is really just mind spinning up to infinity and beyond. Works for me I've already said that I don't know jack, so I can't stand by anything I say, anymore. ;D Jack is a good guy to know. He seems to know everything. ;D |
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Feb 5, 2012 13:49:08 GMT -5
Post by therealfake on Feb 5, 2012 13:49:08 GMT -5
I'm sure some might accuse you of spewing tautological nonsense. I think someone will accuse him of contradicting himself. Yes, but is it a contradiction if your not-knowing, your knowing to not-know, know's not to know, what it's saying it's knowing? Okay I see what you mean. |
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Feb 5, 2012 14:10:00 GMT -5
Post by Peter on Feb 5, 2012 14:10:00 GMT -5
I think someone will accuse him of contradicting himself. What a negative, nasty, ugly person you can be sometimes.... THAT you call nasty? Pull yourself together man, get some perspective. I thought you'd served in the army? |
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