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Post by enigma on Jun 5, 2013 1:31:38 GMT -5
What if it's just a container of ashes?  I don't know, the human body isn't an object taking up space in an objective universe, so I'm not sure what one 'tunes' in to that was never there in the first place. Although I do believe it's highly possible to tune into ones own death...  One tunes into the source of that temporary appearance. It doesn't really matter whether that appearance is appearing or not. |
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Post by enigma on Jun 5, 2013 1:35:54 GMT -5
So here’s a puzzler that I’ve been wondering about: Take this: -- What looks through my eyes is the same as what looks through your eyes -- Call it awareness, presence -- (just pointers) -- that’s the ‘what’ in the above line. Now is this awareness 1. absolutely the same thing -- there’s one Awareness and it’s what is looking through both of our eyes. or 2. the same type of thing. Because we both have eyes, brains, etc. we have the same equipment, and awareness is the natural experience or whatever that arises as a result. It’s not the same absolute thing as in #1 because there is no connection. I’m comfortable with #2 but open to see where I’m amiss. It’s the old Agnostic in me. A person raised in a more god-fearing way may prefer #1. whether you believe in a divine or not, you can easily and directly observe a sentient unity to all of creation through simple observation of yourself follow any emotion, sense, or thought back to its source and you will find your own Awareness at their source. Observe Awareness carefully & you will find what every human in history has found who has observed their Awareness closely your Awareness is empty of definable characteristics and does not change or evolve in it's nature or makeup it has no form, and no boundary you can find, in fact, there is no place that you can observe where our Awareness is not. your own awareness is "observably" without form, movement, or location, "it is therefore beyond limitations of space and time" and here is where it gets interesting. everyone's Awareness is the same...not similar, but the same awareness as a continuos unbroken whole How do we know this? everyone's Awareness is without form, definable characteristic, or boundary....observe your own awareness and see if this is not true... this means that your Awareness, and my Awareness, and everyone else's very own intimate Awareness, that is closer than your own skin, that makes up your essential beingness, is all one Awareness...where there is no time, no movement, no boundary, there is no seperation Your awareness and my awareness are not similar to each other, but one and the same the same Awareness that is reading this right now...is the se awareness that is typing this right now... right now, in this very moment, you can turn your attention inward, and both observe, and immerse yourself in that which is the unifying nature of all things in all places in all times, that connects us all together at our source as timeless oneness There is no mystery here, just simple observation by anyone will reveal this to be true your own Essential Nature, that is immanently and easily observable as your own simple Awareness is the limitless, timeless, formless oneness underlying all thoughts, emotions, perceptions Your own Personal Awareness is Universal do you define that which eternally pervades us all and is at the source of all perceivable creation as Divine? if so you can experience the divine in any moment by simply turning inward and being aware of the most mundane and common thing in all existence, your own Awareness....which is beyond time and boundary if your thought paradigm does not include the divine, then simply ponder the magnitude of the observable fact that the observable nature of your own Awareness proves the existence of a universal sentient oneness that pervades us all, without boundary or division, at the source of ALL perception Yes. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 5, 2013 6:02:19 GMT -5
Greetings.. So here’s a puzzler that I’ve been wondering about: Take this: -- What looks through my eyes is the same as what looks through your eyes -- Call it awareness, presence -- (just pointers) -- that’s the ‘what’ in the above line. Now is this awareness 1. absolutely the same thing -- there’s one Awareness and it’s what is looking through both of our eyes. or 2. the same type of thing. Because we both have eyes, brains, etc. we have the same equipment, and awareness is the natural experience or whatever that arises as a result. It’s not the same absolute thing as in #1 because there is no connection. I’m comfortable with #2 but open to see where I’m amiss. It’s the old Agnostic in me. A person raised in a more god-fearing way may prefer #1. whether you believe in a divine or not, you can easily and directly observe a sentient unity to all of creation through simple observation of yourself follow any emotion, sense, or thought back to its source and you will find your own Awareness at their source. Observe Awareness carefully & you will find what every human in history has found who has observed their Awareness closely your Awareness is empty of definable characteristics and does not change or evolve in it's nature or makeup it has no form, and no boundary you can find, in fact, there is no place that you can observe where our Awareness is not. your own awareness is "observably" without form, movement, or location, "it is therefore beyond limitations of space and time" and here is where it gets interesting. everyone's Awareness is the same...not similar, but the same awareness as a continuos unbroken whole How do we know this? everyone's Awareness is without form, definable characteristic, or boundary....observe your own awareness and see if this is not true... this means that your Awareness, and my Awareness, and everyone else's very own intimate Awareness, that is closer than your own skin, that makes up your essential beingness, is all one Awareness...where there is no time, no movement, no boundary, there is no seperation Your awareness and my awareness are not similar to each other, but one and the same the same Awareness that is reading this right now...is the se awareness that is typing this right now... right now, in this very moment, you can turn your attention inward, and both observe, and immerse yourself in that which is the unifying nature of all things in all places in all times, that connects us all together at our source as timeless oneness There is no mystery here, just simple observation by anyone will reveal this to be true your own Essential Nature, that is immanently and easily observable as your own simple Awareness is the limitless, timeless, formless oneness underlying all thoughts, emotions, perceptions Your own Personal Awareness is Universal do you define that which eternally pervades us all and is at the source of all perceivable creation as Divine? if so you can experience the divine in any moment by simply turning inward and being aware of the most mundane and common thing in all existence, your own Awareness....which is beyond time and boundary if your thought paradigm does not include the divine, then simply ponder the magnitude of the observable fact that the observable nature of your own Awareness proves the existence of a universal sentient oneness that pervades us all, without boundary or division, at the source of ALL perception Now, drop all of those beliefs and just pay attention to what is actually happening.. you're conceptualizing and cresting imagery 'about' what you interpret from what is happening, but.. others interpret differently, awareness is the vehicle that informs the many versions of 'that which is' of its existence as one and many at the same time.. welcome to the forum, applications for membership in the 'club' can be obtained from Enigma, but i sense that 'you' will be confirmed unanimously.. Awareness is an attribute of 'that which is', attachment to awareness as defining one's beliefs about what is actually happening, actually confirms their separate mindscape.. Be well.. |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 5, 2013 8:41:13 GMT -5
Greetings.. whether you believe in a divine or not, you can easily and directly observe a sentient unity to all of creation through simple observation of yourself follow any emotion, sense, or thought back to its source and you will find your own Awareness at their source. Observe Awareness carefully & you will find what every human in history has found who has observed their Awareness closely your Awareness is empty of definable characteristics and does not change or evolve in it's nature or makeup it has no form, and no boundary you can find, in fact, there is no place that you can observe where our Awareness is not. your own awareness is "observably" without form, movement, or location, "it is therefore beyond limitations of space and time" and here is where it gets interesting. everyone's Awareness is the same...not similar, but the same awareness as a continuos unbroken whole How do we know this? everyone's Awareness is without form, definable characteristic, or boundary....observe your own awareness and see if this is not true... this means that your Awareness, and my Awareness, and everyone else's very own intimate Awareness, that is closer than your own skin, that makes up your essential beingness, is all one Awareness...where there is no time, no movement, no boundary, there is no seperation Your awareness and my awareness are not similar to each other, but one and the same the same Awareness that is reading this right now...is the se awareness that is typing this right now... right now, in this very moment, you can turn your attention inward, and both observe, and immerse yourself in that which is the unifying nature of all things in all places in all times, that connects us all together at our source as timeless oneness There is no mystery here, just simple observation by anyone will reveal this to be true your own Essential Nature, that is immanently and easily observable as your own simple Awareness is the limitless, timeless, formless oneness underlying all thoughts, emotions, perceptions Your own Personal Awareness is Universal do you define that which eternally pervades us all and is at the source of all perceivable creation as Divine? if so you can experience the divine in any moment by simply turning inward and being aware of the most mundane and common thing in all existence, your own Awareness....which is beyond time and boundary if your thought paradigm does not include the divine, then simply ponder the magnitude of the observable fact that the observable nature of your own Awareness proves the existence of a universal sentient oneness that pervades us all, without boundary or division, at the source of ALL perception Now, drop all of those beliefs and just pay attention to what is actually happening.. you're conceptualizing and cresting imagery 'about' what you interpret from what is happening, but.. others interpret differently, awareness is the vehicle that informs the many versions of 'that which is' of its existence as one and many at the same time.. welcome to the forum, applications for membership in the 'club' can be obtained from Enigma, but i sense that 'you' will be confirmed unanimously.. Awareness is an attribute of 'that which is', attachment to awareness as defining one's beliefs about what is actually happening, actually confirms their separate mindscape.. Be well.. Dear Dude/Dudette, Trying to make friends again? Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize |
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Post by zendancer on Jun 5, 2013 10:42:23 GMT -5
So here’s a puzzler that I’ve been wondering about: Take this: -- What looks through my eyes is the same as what looks through your eyes -- Call it awareness, presence -- (just pointers) -- that’s the ‘what’ in the above line. Now is this awareness 1. absolutely the same thing -- there’s one Awareness and it’s what is looking through both of our eyes. or 2. the same type of thing. Because we both have eyes, brains, etc. we have the same equipment, and awareness is the natural experience or whatever that arises as a result. It’s not the same absolute thing as in #1 because there is no connection. I’m comfortable with #2 but open to see where I’m amiss. It’s the old Agnostic in me. A person raised in a more god-fearing way may prefer #1. whether you believe in a divine or not, you can easily and directly observe a sentient unity to all of creation through simple observation of yourself follow any emotion, sense, or thought back to its source and you will find your own Awareness at their source. Observe Awareness carefully & you will find what every human in history has found who has observed their Awareness closely your Awareness is empty of definable characteristics and does not change or evolve in it's nature or makeup it has no form, and no boundary you can find, in fact, there is no place that you can observe where our Awareness is not. your own awareness is "observably" without form, movement, or location, "it is therefore beyond limitations of space and time" and here is where it gets interesting. everyone's Awareness is the same...not similar, but the same awareness as a continuos unbroken whole How do we know this? everyone's Awareness is without form, definable characteristic, or boundary....observe your own awareness and see if this is not true... this means that your Awareness, and my Awareness, and everyone else's very own intimate Awareness, that is closer than your own skin, that makes up your essential beingness, is all one Awareness...where there is no time, no movement, no boundary, there is no seperation Your awareness and my awareness are not similar to each other, but one and the same the same Awareness that is reading this right now...is the se awareness that is typing this right now... right now, in this very moment, you can turn your attention inward, and both observe, and immerse yourself in that which is the unifying nature of all things in all places in all times, that connects us all together at our source as timeless oneness There is no mystery here, just simple observation by anyone will reveal this to be true your own Essential Nature, that is immanently and easily observable as your own simple Awareness is the limitless, timeless, formless oneness underlying all thoughts, emotions, perceptions Your own Personal Awareness is Universal do you define that which eternally pervades us all and is at the source of all perceivable creation as Divine? if so you can experience the divine in any moment by simply turning inward and being aware of the most mundane and common thing in all existence, your own Awareness....which is beyond time and boundary if your thought paradigm does not include the divine, then simply ponder the magnitude of the observable fact that the observable nature of your own Awareness proves the existence of a universal sentient oneness that pervades us all, without boundary or division, at the source of ALL perception Well stated, and welcome to the forum. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2013 10:49:56 GMT -5
Tzu,
Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?
The reason that I ask, is that in the second paragraph you said that Awareness is an "attribute" of what is.
Perhaps we have assign different meanings to the word Awareness, but in my thought paradigm it's closer to the mark to say "What is" in the world of form is an attribute of Awareness...an out flowing or "in" forming of Awareness.
However, this becomes a chicken or the egg conversation doesn't it?
I like where you were going in the first paragraph about leaving the beliefs aside, in truth, Ocean and wave are inseperable, and beliefs about either just create more "waves"
But I'm cool with this at this point in my life.
I challenged all the beliefs that I care to challenge by just looking at what is, and realized that all beliefs are just a creation, after that, the hard work of stopping the momentum of belief issued....time will tell if that was a silly effort or not.
What I can tell you, is that in my personal experience so far, recognizing the nature of belief, and getting off the unconscious hamster wheel of it, and then getting on the conscious hamster wheel of belief, has had a profound impact on my disposition.
Most of my life was per-occupied with the search for truth, what is, and enlightenment....but then it become clear that nothing is true, or everything is...either way, my deconstruction into enlightened non-being will happen all on its own in its due course, until that does, peace of mind is about the best I can hope for.
To that end I have consciously chosen a set of loosely held and non-defended beliefs that bring me peace and harmony.
These are like a comforting friend as the ride of this iteration of my existence seems to be loosing its inertia.
Oddly enough, after a lifetime of trying to strip away beliefs and mental projections from clear observation of what is, I have come back to a belief in God....I just simply "Chose" to.
But not a personified God imbued with some definable characteristics or attributes, other than that God seems to answer Prayers and impart Grace, Peace, and Clarity when one is receptive to it.
So for me, after stripping away beliefs and thought paradigms, I have ultimately chosen to consciously replace them with a belief in God/Sentient-Undifinable-All-Pervading-Awareness that brings me comfort, imbues me with God's Grace, and profound Gratitude, and that answers and fulfills my prayers.
I realize that in some ways this is a mental and emotional construct, but while this wave of the ocean exists, i.e. this mind scape wave of the sea of awareness, I'm fine with making use of beliefs that bring a sense of peace, harmony, and clarity, because ultimately, not so long from now, this wave will have run its course and be no more, what will remain is the ripples in the sea touching the other waves that are still being....so in some ways I guess you can say that while I am waiting for this "me" wave to run its course, I'm choosing beliefs that shape the nature of my wave in such a way the ripples left in the ocean after my passing are ripples of comfort for those that are disturbed by doubt and fear, ripples of peace, harmony, joy, compassion, etc...
Sooner or later we will all return to our most simplistic essential nature and be fully "enlightened"...after we are gone all that will remain is the ripples from our passing touching the waves that follow....so for me, I found it useful to deconstruct beliefs so I could get off the hamster wheel of suffering, fear, and doubt, but useful to consciously chose beliefs that bring peace, harmony, faith, and clarity.
We all believe something while in this mind form, and soon enough this mind form will subside away, what's left will be the ripples that are left that touch the waves that follow...and our beliefs, either chosen or habitually manifested, will determine the nature of what touches humanity as your wave rolls by, and ultimately fades away into echoing ripples.
For me, a chosen Faith in a largely undefined God and God's Grace, and a letting go, and prayer, all make this wave of my existence a better place to be, and hopefully will leave at least some small measure of peace, joy, compassion, and clarity for the other waves in its passing.
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Post by laughter on Jun 5, 2013 11:09:46 GMT -5
Hey sog, pleasure to make your acquaintance. Oddly enough, after a lifetime of trying to strip away beliefs and mental projections from clear observation of what is, I have come back to a belief in God....I just simply "Chose" to. I like to express this the following way: belief and faith are antonyms.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2013 11:16:59 GMT -5
So here’s a puzzler that I’ve been wondering about: Take this: -- What looks through my eyes is the same as what looks through your eyes -- Call it awareness, presence -- (just pointers) -- that’s the ‘what’ in the above line. Now is this awareness 1. absolutely the same thing -- there’s one Awareness and it’s what is looking through both of our eyes. or 2. the same type of thing. Because we both have eyes, brains, etc. we have the same equipment, and awareness is the natural experience or whatever that arises as a result. It’s not the same absolute thing as in #1 because there is no connection. I’m comfortable with #2 but open to see where I’m amiss. It’s the old Agnostic in me. A person raised in a more god-fearing way may prefer #1. whether you believe in a divine or not, you can easily and directly observe a sentient unity to all of creation through simple observation of yourself follow any emotion, sense, or thought back to its source and you will find your own Awareness at their source. Observe Awareness carefully & you will find what every human in history has found who has observed their Awareness closely your Awareness is empty of definable characteristics and does not change or evolve in it's nature or makeup it has no form, and no boundary you can find, in fact, there is no place that you can observe where our Awareness is not. your own awareness is "observably" without form, movement, or location, "it is therefore beyond limitations of space and time" Hi sog, and thank you for the time it took to write this reply. I appreciate it! I'm with you all the way to 'without form, movement, or location.' The next step "beyond limitations of space and time" is true in the sense that it seems without form, movement, or location. That's what it seems like. But I don't know what the next moment will bring so I have no conclusions about how it is. The next moment a plane engine may fall through the ceiling above my head and crush me in this spot, for example, or something less dramatic but equally final, like a brain aneurysm. I imagine that in the next moment Awareness will be the same, but lacking a functioning body I'm not so sure, despite the fact that it seems to be unbound by time and location and vessel. Here's where you lost me again. It does seem like folks that are interested in this subject are reporting the same thing -- Awareness is without definable characteristics or boundary. But to conclude that this means we're all tapped into the same Awareness, something (which is not a thing) that transcends boundaries and bodies and time, rather than a counter proposal that we are all individually tapped into the same type of thing (that appears to transcend boundaries) just seems like conjecture, like an additional belief. Why isn't it enough to just be with what Awareness seems to be like and not conclude that it is some universal truth? As an answer to this question, tutored from Schoonmaker's wonderful book 'A Guide for the Perplexed,' and not wholly dissimilar to Pascal's Wager, I'd say that such a conclusion/belief can enhance one's life. It can help in human relations, for example. And it can help in terms of opening up to possibilities. Right now, I'm not in the business of adding beliefs. Perhaps someday. I'm currently in the biz of shedding beliefs. The notion that Awareness is All still seems to me like a belief which I'm questioning. I'm also questioning the belief that Awareness is just a typical experience existing with living things possessing the right equipment. Is the conclusion you've reached that Awareness is Universal and underlying all thoughts, emotions and perceptions something you've derived by thinking or is it just something that seems obvious like looking at a cloud in the sky? It's sounds like knowledge to me. When I sit in Awareness, knowledge about if it's universal or not is absent. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2013 11:59:04 GMT -5
I don't know, the human body isn't an object taking up space in an objective universe, so I'm not sure what one 'tunes' in to that was never there in the first place. Although I do believe it's highly possible to tune into ones own death... One tunes into the source of that temporary appearance. It doesn't really matter whether that appearance is appearing or not. Right, so what's this tuning into a 'field' or dead person biznit then?? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2013 12:10:48 GMT -5
Max,
When you sit in Awareness, have you ever taken a look around?
When I do that I noticed that my Awareness pervades everything that I can perceive, and that everything that I perceive is inside my Awareness.
I guess it's pretty easy to "assume" from that that Awareness is Universal, because perceptually it seems so, but I guess it's certainly possible that your Awareness is separate from mine even though we have the same experience of it.
Wonderful question Max!
It may be that our Awareness is somehow separate despite the apparent lack of shape or boundary, but functionally speaking, does it matter if I am wholly in your Awareness and you are wholly in mine?
What I find, is that it really doesn't matter in real life whether I perceive us to be one or not...if I carry peace and clarity and compassion within me then I interact with you one way,and if I carry conflict, doubt, or fear within me I interact with you another way, regardless of whether I see you as a connected part of me or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2013 12:13:53 GMT -5
Tzu, I like where you were going in the first paragraph about leaving the beliefs aside, in truth, Ocean and wave are inseperable, and beliefs about either just create more "waves" But I'm cool with this at this point in my life. I challenged all the beliefs that I care to challenge by just looking at what is, and realized that all beliefs are just a creation, after that, the hard work of stopping the momentum of belief issued....time will tell if that was a silly effort or not. What I can tell you, is that in my personal experience so far, recognizing the nature of belief, and getting off the unconscious hamster wheel of it, and then getting on the conscious hamster wheel of belief, has had a profound impact on my disposition. Most of my life was per-occupied with the search for truth, what is, and enlightenment....but then it become clear that nothing is true, or everything is...either way, my deconstruction into enlightened non-being will happen all on its own in its due course, until that does, peace of mind is about the best I can hope for.
To that end I have consciously chosen a set of loosely held and non-defended beliefs that bring me peace and harmony.
These are like a comforting friend as the ride of this iteration of my existence seems to be loosing its inertia.
Oddly enough, after a lifetime of trying to strip away beliefs and mental projections from clear observation of what is, I have come back to a belief in God....I just simply "Chose" to.Resonating with all you say here Sog. The bolded part reminds me very much of a Jed mcKenna quote I recently shared in another thread here to try to explain where I'm coming from with non-attachment to beliefs, but still having an ability to engage with relative 'truths.' (Again, kind of funny that it's McKenna's quote, because In general, I haven't been a fan...but this jumped out at me as though I'd written it myself). I see you as different than some of those who have agreed with what you said, in that you have seen through belief to the extent, that you are now aware of the fact that you DO 'consciously' entertain certain ideas, (almost) as though they are belief, but you do not mix up those ideas with 'absolute truth.' Overall, I really enjoyed reading your post...some real clarity here in my estimation. (& welcome!)  |
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Post by enigma on Jun 5, 2013 14:09:58 GMT -5
One tunes into the source of that temporary appearance. It doesn't really matter whether that appearance is appearing or not. Right, so what's this tuning into a 'field' or dead person biznit then?? From a practical standpoint, that's the focus. How else are you going to find that 'file' in the consciousness archives? Don't you need a 'file name'? |
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Post by laughter on Jun 5, 2013 14:20:05 GMT -5
Right, so what's this tuning into a 'field' or dead person biznit then?? From a practical standpoint, that's the focus. How else are you going to find that 'file' in the consciousness archives? Don't you need a 'file name'? ... ahhh so now I interpret your remark to apply to someone who died before they died tuning into ... "their past 'self'" ( so to speak) ... on it's face it seemed you were gonna' go all John Edward on us or sumthin' |
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Post by enigma on Jun 5, 2013 14:55:18 GMT -5
From a practical standpoint, that's the focus. How else are you going to find that 'file' in the consciousness archives? Don't you need a 'file name'? ... ahhh so now I interpret your remark to apply to someone who died before they died tuning into ... "their past 'self'" ( so to speak) ... on it's face it seemed you were gonna' go all John Edwards on us or sumthin' I'm not sure what that means. I'll just say that 'other peeps' are found 'in here', and not really 'out there'. The notion sometimes infuriates peeps who want to stay 'out there', so I'm not sure how much I wanna discuss it. |
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Post by laughter on Jun 5, 2013 15:06:14 GMT -5
... ahhh so now I interpret your remark to apply to someone who died before they died tuning into ... "their past 'self'" ( so to speak) ... on it's face it seemed you were gonna' go all John Edwards on us or sumthin' I'm not sure what that means. I'll just say that 'other peeps' are found 'in here', and not really 'out there'. The notion sometimes infuriates peeps who want to stay 'out there', so I'm not sure how much I wanna discuss it. o.k. John ... (John Edward btw, not "Edwards", sorry...) |
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