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Post by tzujanli on Mar 9, 2013 10:37:50 GMT -5
Greetings.. only if you see stuff and not-stuff instead of THIS "THIS" is just another 'thought about' what 'is'.. you seem attached to using your interpretation of existence through the 'word/thought', THIS.. you can let go of 'THIS', but 'stuff' is still right there in front of you.. trying to describe it away doesn't invalidate it, it reinforces it.. Be well.. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 13:21:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. Ha ha! ... actually it's "no sweat" Max 'cause all that mindstuff, even though it doesn't have any other mindstuff to make it false, just collapses under it's own weight: Mankind assumed that there was stuff that we was made of, set out to find what that stuff was, and eventually found the assumption to be faulty. And, through all of the elaborate explanations of why there isn't really 'stuff', the 'stuff' persistently affects this actual 'now' experience of existence.. Be well.. That's the faulty assumption. You don't know anything about stuff. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 13:24:48 GMT -5
Greetings.. only if you see stuff and not-stuff instead of THIS "THIS" is just another 'thought about' what 'is'.. you seem attached to using your interpretation of existence through the 'word/thought', THIS.. you can let go of 'THIS', but 'stuff' is still right there in front of you.. trying to describe it away doesn't invalidate it, it reinforces it.. Be well.. You don't know if there is stuff right in front of you, you only know that it appears that way. In your nightly dreams, it also appears that stuff is right in front of you, and yet there is no stuff in front of you. That at least should open the door to the possibility that there isn't stuff in front of you now. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 9, 2013 13:41:17 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. And, through all of the elaborate explanations of why there isn't really 'stuff', the 'stuff' persistently affects this actual 'now' experience of existence.. Be well.. That's the faulty assumption. You don't know anything about stuff. That's the faulty assumption. You don't know anything about what i know. Be well.. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 9, 2013 13:47:57 GMT -5
Greetings.. "THIS" is just another 'thought about' what 'is'.. you seem attached to using your interpretation of existence through the 'word/thought', THIS.. you can let go of 'THIS', but 'stuff' is still right there in front of you.. trying to describe it away doesn't invalidate it, it reinforces it.. Be well.. You don't know if there is stuff right in front of you, you only know that it appears that way. In your nightly dreams, it also appears that stuff is right in front of you, and yet there is no stuff in front of you. That at least should open the door to the possibility that there isn't stuff in front of you now. You have really confused your dreams with reality, you are too attached to your imagination.. You say "there is no stuff in front of you", but you live in stuff, type and post on stuff, stuff fills you existence, and.. you pretend it isn't there, feeding your own illusions which you peddle as 'true'.. Be well.. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 14:12:11 GMT -5
You don't know if there is stuff right in front of you, you only know that it appears that way. In your nightly dreams, it also appears that stuff is right in front of you, and yet there is no stuff in front of you. That at least should open the door to the possibility that there isn't stuff in front of you now. You have really confused your dreams with reality, you are too attached to your imagination.. You say "there is no stuff in front of you", but you live in stuff, type and post on stuff, stuff fills you existence, and.. you pretend it isn't there, feeding your own illusions which you peddle as 'true'.. Be well.. Obviously, nightly dreams were given as an example of stuff apparently appearing where there is, in fact, no stuff. While dreaming, you believe in this 'stuff', though you are mistaken. Anyone interested in what's really going on might stop to wonder if they're also mistaken about the waking state, especially since science strongly points to the same conclusion. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 9, 2013 15:00:09 GMT -5
Greetings.. You have really confused your dreams with reality, you are too attached to your imagination.. You say "there is no stuff in front of you", but you live in stuff, type and post on stuff, stuff fills you existence, and.. you pretend it isn't there, feeding your own illusions which you peddle as 'true'.. Be well.. Obviously, nightly dreams were given as an example of stuff apparently appearing where there is, in fact, no stuff. While dreaming, you believe in this 'stuff', though you are mistaken. Anyone interested in what's really going on might stop to wonder if they're also mistaken about the waking state, especially since science strongly points to the same conclusion. Here's the deal, this is mindplay, even the science.. tell as many stories as you choose, and the 'stuff' is still there.. forget 'dreams', deal with what is consistently present in Life.. you can change your beliefs about many things, but the 'stuff' is still there.. you can describe the 'physics of emptiness', but the 'stuff' is still there.. learn to be truly present, and benefit from the absence of battling against beliefs about 'stuff'.. it is so much more simple than a war against 'stuff'.. Be well.. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 15:29:01 GMT -5
Greetings.. Obviously, nightly dreams were given as an example of stuff apparently appearing where there is, in fact, no stuff. While dreaming, you believe in this 'stuff', though you are mistaken. Anyone interested in what's really going on might stop to wonder if they're also mistaken about the waking state, especially since science strongly points to the same conclusion. Here's the deal, this is mindplay, even the science.. tell as many stories as you choose, and the 'stuff' is still there.. forget 'dreams', deal with what is consistently present in Life.. you can change your beliefs about many things, but the 'stuff' is still there.. you can describe the 'physics of emptiness', but the 'stuff' is still there.. learn to be truly present, and benefit from the absence of battling against beliefs about 'stuff'.. it is so much more simple than a war against 'stuff'.. Be well.. No need to go to war against stuff, just question your own assumptions about what appears in front of you, to whom it appears, whether it appears 'out there', whether or not it is objectively there, and if it is really separate from what's 'in here' or separate from the perceiver or the perceiving of it. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 9, 2013 15:43:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Here's the deal, this is mindplay, even the science.. tell as many stories as you choose, and the 'stuff' is still there.. forget 'dreams', deal with what is consistently present in Life.. you can change your beliefs about many things, but the 'stuff' is still there.. you can describe the 'physics of emptiness', but the 'stuff' is still there.. learn to be truly present, and benefit from the absence of battling against beliefs about 'stuff'.. it is so much more simple than a war against 'stuff'.. Be well.. No need to go to war against stuff, just question your own assumptions about what appears in front of you, to whom it appears, whether it appears 'out there', whether or not it is objectively there, and if it is really separate from what's 'in here' or separate from the perceiver or the perceiving of it. Get out of your head!! TMT.. try stillness, it really will surprise you.. you are so attached to your precious beliefs, let them go, if you are actually interested in liberation, but.. i sense that you would rather entice others into your 'thoughts'.. Be well.. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 16:14:30 GMT -5
Greetings.. No need to go to war against stuff, just question your own assumptions about what appears in front of you, to whom it appears, whether it appears 'out there', whether or not it is objectively there, and if it is really separate from what's 'in here' or separate from the perceiver or the perceiving of it. Get out of your head!! TMT.. try stillness, it really will surprise you.. you are so attached to your precious beliefs, let them go, if you are actually interested in liberation, but.. i sense that you would rather entice others into your 'thoughts'.. Be well.. I've given you every opportunity to engage in open, honest discussion here and look what happens. All you can do is wave your sword around, dismiss, distract, condescend, insult, manipulate, talk from a place of authority that says you're right and I'm wrong. IOW, everything you accuse me of. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 9, 2013 16:41:27 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Get out of your head!! TMT.. try stillness, it really will surprise you.. you are so attached to your precious beliefs, let them go, if you are actually interested in liberation, but.. i sense that you would rather entice others into your 'thoughts'.. Be well.. I've given you every opportunity to engage in open, honest discussion here and look what happens. All you can do is wave your sword around, dismiss, distract, condescend, insult, manipulate, talk from a place of authority that says you're right and I'm wrong. IOW, everything you accuse me of. You have never given the opportunity for open, honest, respectful discussions, and you evade every opportunity i've offered.. you always direct the discussions to your agenda.. your "i'm rubber, you're glue" strategy is consistent with your beliefs that 'it's all a dream', or that it's all imagined'.. a bit too much sci-fi influence i suspect, rather fond of dwelling in your imagination.. so, let's get back to your lesson, okay?.. find what the samurai found, let go of your beliefs, really, let 'em go.. just look at yourself and the drama you try to provoke.. it must be so painful for you.. release your battlefield, the one you carry with you.. and, if blaming me for your suffering helps you find your way out, i'm there for you, brother.. Be well.. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 17:22:41 GMT -5
Greetings.. I've given you every opportunity to engage in open, honest discussion here and look what happens. All you can do is wave your sword around, dismiss, distract, condescend, insult, manipulate, talk from a place of authority that says you're right and I'm wrong. IOW, everything you accuse me of. You have never given the opportunity for open, honest, respectful discussions, and you evade every opportunity i've offered.. you always direct the discussions to your agenda.. your "i'm rubber, you're glue" strategy is consistent with your beliefs that 'it's all a dream', or that it's all imagined'.. a bit too much sci-fi influence i suspect, rather fond of dwelling in your imagination.. so, let's get back to your lesson, okay?.. find what the samurai found, let go of your beliefs, really, let 'em go.. just look at yourself and the drama you try to provoke.. it must be so painful for you.. release your battlefield, the one you carry with you.. and, if blaming me for your suffering helps you find your way out, i'm there for you, brother.. Be well.. I'm sorry. I broke my pencil and my dog ate my homework......really! Thanks. It really helps to know that you're here to love and guide me. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 9, 2013 19:30:14 GMT -5
Greetings.. only if you see stuff and not-stuff instead of THIS "THIS" is just another 'thought about' what 'is'.. you seem attached to using your interpretation of existence through the 'word/thought', THIS.. you can let go of 'THIS', but 'stuff' is still right there in front of you.. trying to describe it away doesn't invalidate it, it reinforces it.. Be well.. paraphrasing Novella from here:  "OOOOGA BOOOGA!" ... which I've been told is mid-Paleolithic for "ME SEE STUFF!" Laughter's presentation of 2nd-hand knowledge sourced from Young, Bohr, etc: (observation at slits – scattering pattern, no observation at slits – diffraction pattern) To which Tzu' replies: 'stuff' is still right there in front of you I hear the sound of the π'd piper. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 9, 2013 19:35:33 GMT -5
tell as many stories as you choose, and the 'stuff' is still there.. This states a model. It is a very very old model, one that matches common perception. Instead of "being still, and knowing", you instead invite the mind on a wild goose chase that was already finished a century ago. |
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Post by topology on Mar 9, 2013 20:02:29 GMT -5
Greetings.. No need to go to war against stuff, just question your own assumptions about what appears in front of you, to whom it appears, whether it appears 'out there', whether or not it is objectively there, and if it is really separate from what's 'in here' or separate from the perceiver or the perceiving of it. Get out of your head!! TMT.. try stillness, it really will surprise you.. you are so attached to your precious beliefs, let them go, if you are actually interested in liberation, but.. i sense that you would rather entice others into your 'thoughts'.. Be well.. Hi Bob, One of the things that I noticed about actively silencing the mind, such as TM style meditations is that it is like putting the car in neutral. It disengages the gears. The gears of the mind have to be engaged in order to "process". The mind will pick up right where it left off when it returns from stillness if it has been actively stilled and silenced. Listening, on the other hand has an active mind in the process. The mind is in a receptive/digestive mode which processes what is experienced. Listening I find to be a more clear directive. It is open, receptive, and engaging. It is present and participatory. There is a reconciling principle between what you and Phil are saying, if you choose to acknowledge it. And that is that in order to listen, one must tear down within themselves that which interferes with hearing clearly. That is the nature of Phil's approach, an exploration of what it is that interferes with Listening. I'm not claiming that he is perfect at executing his intent, just acknowledging that his stated intent has purpose and value. -Edward |
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only if you see stuff and not-stuff instead of THIS
