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Post by michaelsees on Mar 23, 2011 18:30:30 GMT -5
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Post by sharon on Mar 23, 2011 18:47:46 GMT -5
You may need it to be all good ... though it clearly isn't. You revealed your agenda a few weeks ago ... are you still researching for the book?
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 23, 2011 18:55:34 GMT -5
Ok I will let you have last word go for it, take your best shot
OH my book is only a small reason I am here but your input helps
bye
Michael
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Post by sharon on Mar 31, 2011 5:05:46 GMT -5
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Post by sharon on Apr 15, 2011 1:45:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2011 7:00:55 GMT -5
thanks for the cup of black coffee this morning!
just perfect.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 8:49:14 GMT -5
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Post by smokey on Apr 28, 2011 10:10:11 GMT -5
. Vernon Howard, the Mystic Plumber I found Vernon Howard after my world had turned upside down and was looking for something spiritual that made practical sense. While browsing books in a philosophical library in Escondido, California, I grabbed and opened The Mystic Path to Cosmic Power to a page that said, "Observe yourself." The words made so much sense that I borrowed and read the book. Howard's whole approach to spirituality was the down-to-earth everyday practice of dropping wasteful mental and emotional habits. Coincidently, there was a small group of Vernon Howard followers meeting in Miramar. The speaker would give a talk on the principles and the group would discuss them. Small one-dollar books and audio tapes were available. I gobbled them up. Howard's teachings are not the typical sugar-coated motivational hype. He knew from his own experience that the old indulgent self must be broken down before it can flushed away. That the old must die before rebirth can occur is the most overlooked principle in spiritual growth. Most of us just want to take a book pill, or a yoga pill, or a meditation pill, or a guru pill. Then we wonder why we don't get anywhere. Vernon Howard was relentless in his attacks on habits, friends and other diversions. One of the most important quotes for me was.... "Relatives -- may heaven save us from them all." Those words told me it is not only okay to avoid parents and relatives, it is indispensable to spiritual work. "You can't stay the same and change." This reflects don Juan Matus' warning that people you know hold you with their thoughts -- hold you where you are. I've since had no communication with any of my parents or relatives in over thirty years. Vernon Howard was the one who cleaned my pipes of rust and debris so the new water coming in was clear enough to see though to the meaning of what I read and heard. There is no way to recognize authentic spiritual truths through cloudy water. Some of Vernon Howard's talks are available on youtube. . |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 10:25:51 GMT -5
"Relatives -- may heaven save us from them all." Those words told me it is not only okay to avoid parents and relatives, it is indispensable to spiritual work. "You can't stay the same and change." This reflects don Juan Matus' warning that people you know hold you with their thoughts -- hold you where you are. I've since had no communication with any of my parents or relatives in over thirty years. Vernon Howard was the one who cleaned my pipes of rust and debris so the new water coming in was clear enough to see though to the meaning of what I read and heard. There is no way to recognize authentic spiritual truths through cloudy water. Some of Vernon Howard's talks are available on youtube. . thanks for that post Smokey and hi and welcome. aren't walking away or not walking away from relatives both possible in recognizing what is? giving up relationships seems like one way to go. Perhaps the worse those relationships are the better that way is? it seems like the whole 'you can't stay the same and change' misses the point a little. that changing you will still be clouding the vision, eh? why not just be there with what's happening with a big Yes! as Chuck Hillig says? I don't know, maybe I'm not cut out for this spiritual life...the thought of leaving relatives for ever would be a real big bummer. |
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Post by smokey on Apr 28, 2011 19:46:33 GMT -5
10-4 Maxdprophet, There are millions of different roads to higher ground. Spiritual work is not one-size-fits-all, although you can adjust teachings to fit your needs. Our materialistic culture tries to homogenize humanity to fit predetermined forms. It forces us to believe that all human beings have the same needs. Nothing could be further from the truth. Karmic connections for my parents and relatives were not strong so it was easy to leave. Leaving them allowed me the room to expand my mind sufficiently to learn precepts and do exercises I could not have done without letting go of the person they thought I was. Others may be able to expand sufficiently while being around familiar faces. Then again, things look different down the road. . |
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Post by vacant on Apr 29, 2011 4:07:30 GMT -5
Max and Smokey,
As usual, pointing words can be taken for what they are not and one can put the cart before the ox. It maybe that freedom could occasionally lead to leaving some things or people behind, but running from anything or anyone being the hallmark of bondage, it cannot lead to freedom. Some“seekers” will do silly things when trying to act according to their imagination of what the holy man is.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2011 13:30:57 GMT -5
yea, i've been feeling an overwhelming sense of pointeritis recently. keeps the head spinning and i can't seem to push that cart in any practical direction.
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Post by smokey on Apr 29, 2011 14:26:58 GMT -5
Vacant, There is a difference between "running away" and realizing that family, friends, a mate, or other relation is stallling your spiritual growth. At some point it helps if someone you respect tells you it is okay to leave them behind. Familiarity can prevent shedding unnecessary and harmful habits. Once you have shaken loose those old habits, you can return if you want. Believe me, they will welcome you back with open arms. I just never wanted to go back. Also, there is nothing wrong with doing what your ordinary self calls "silly things," All so-called mistakes and wrong turns eventually lead to the Truth. Many are even shortcuts. This society's phobia about making mistakes is a dis-ease. Most people are so afraid of blundering that they never do anything extraordinary. Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes. - Mahatma Ghandi Mistakes are the portals of discovery. -James Joyce The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything. -Theodore Roosevelt A clever man commits no minor blunders. -Goethe . |
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Post by vacant on Apr 30, 2011 10:16:27 GMT -5
yea, i've been feeling an overwhelming sense of pointeritis recently. keeps the head spinning and i can't seem to push that cart in any practical direction. Know what you mean. The pointeritis ;D virus is tenatious, contagious, and I got it bad too! |
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Post by vacant on Apr 30, 2011 10:26:19 GMT -5
Vacant, There is a difference between "running away" and realizing that family, friends, a mate, or other relation is stallling your spiritual growth. At some point it helps if someone you respect tells you it is okay to leave them behind. Familiarity can prevent shedding unnecessary and harmful habits. Once you have shaken loose those old habits, you can return if you want. Believe me, they will welcome you back with open arms. I just never wanted to go back. Also, there is nothing wrong with doing what your ordinary self calls "silly things," All so-called mistakes and wrong turns eventually lead to the Truth. Many are even shortcuts. This society's phobia about making mistakes is a dis-ease. Most people are so afraid of blundering that they never do anything extraordinary. Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes. - Mahatma Ghandi Mistakes are the portals of discovery. -James Joyce The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything. -Theodore Roosevelt A clever man commits no minor blunders. -Goethe . Oh sure, mistakes are alright, or not really mistakes, but I was reacting to Which seemed to imply otherwise. Anyway, I see it all fine to leave anyone or anything if you feel their proximity is unpleasant, disturbing, or you just want to hit the road and enjoy a bit of solitude, no reason particularly necessary. But if I was I would hope to question the value of such realization and enquire if it could be a made up distraction to postpone immediate direct seeing “just this one more time”. It can be easy to think “if only this or that detail is different from what I am presented with, then my spiritual work is all set to go” and in the process miss getting in tune with the here and now as it is. Mind is expert at procrastination. But I'm not either saying that one should do nothing about a situation that becomes intollerable. All good. |
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