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Post by michaelsees on Jan 10, 2011 16:00:21 GMT -5
Yes it's always the same how could it be different. Every teacher I have heard have said "LOOK you don't exist! If you think of yourself as a person that's your first big mistake. They all seem to really want to get that one across strongly.
However as you say when you look into the teaching with more depth you see things that differ quite a bit. I was reading one of Robert Adam's satsangs the other day in which he said in very clear terms to his group what are you doing wasting your time here, you have no idea where Karma will land you after you die if you do not realize the truth in this life while you are alive(body/mind? Yet if you bring this up in most of today modern teachers they will have a hard time with this word karma doing this.
Interesting stuff but it's just stuff.
Michael
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Post by Portto on Jan 10, 2011 16:06:39 GMT -5
^^ Nice post! there is no difference between ordinary life and spiritual life No difference other than one being ordinary and the other one spiritual. Because they are lived by the same being  |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 10, 2011 16:17:22 GMT -5
To answer Popee's question, no, I don't trade stocks for a living, but I enjoy the stock market and personal finance issues, and am intellectually curious about everything imaginable. Like E. my primary business is contracting, but I trade stocks almost every day and love to read about economics, demographics, and lots of other stuff. I am always fascinated by what is happening at the cutting edge of technology even though I'm a certified Luddite. If it were up to me, every appliance and every electronic gadget would only have two buttons--on and off. I have no idea how to program a VCR or anything else, and I don't care. I don't even know how to enter names in my cellphone for quick dialing! At the same time, though somewhat stupid, I often see patterns that have potential significance. Take that for what its worth, and take everything else I write here with a big grain of salt.
Because our business was risky Carol never wanted us to put any retirement savings into the stock market. So, year after year, we put a tiny amount of cash into CD's paying almost nothing. During the nineties the stock market zoomed into the stratosphere and finally Carol agreed that maybe we should be a bit more adventuresome. LOL. I therefore invested $20,000 in a Growth and Income mutual fund and $10,000 in a no-load index fund. For the next two or three years I occasionally checked the two accounts and they both rose in lockstep. Then, in about the third year I looked at the accounts and was shocked to discover that each account had approximately the same amount of money in them. How could that be? I looked at the chart of the index fund and it was a nice steady climb that mirrored the S&P 500 and the market as a whole. The chart of the G&I fund rose in the same way until a particular day when it dropped a huge amount in value. This was my first lesson in the stock market and it is the reason that I liquidated the G&I fund, put that money into the index fund, and never again bought a mutual fund. I discovered that only about 5% of money managers can beat the S&P 500 consistently and the management fees for mutual funds are exorbitant.
This experience led me to the Motley Fools and some similarly-minded folks who extolled the virtues of buying individual stocks. Because I am impulsive, optimistic, a do-it-your-selfer, and often stupid, I was ready to leap into stocks without knowing anything. Unfortunately, I decided to do this just as the dot-com bubble was on the verge of popping! Ha ha; the joke is always on me.
My daughter's college finance professor told his class about a great hi-tech stock, and she told me. I looked at the stock. It was selling for $90/share. The next day it rose to $100/share, and the following day it hit $110/share. I thought, "Wow, if I had only bought it two days ago, I'd already have a big gain." These were famous last words because the next day the stock dropped back to $90/share and I thought, "What a bargain! This will be like shooting fish in a barrel." I put $25,000 into the stock and the following day it fell to $80/share. This was an even bigger bargain than the day before so I sunk another $25,000 into the stock. I also bought two or there other great bargains at the same time. I don't think I need to explain what happened over the next few months. I learned my next fantastic lesson about the stock market, which could be summarized as, "I don;t know anything about the stock market and now I know that I don't know anything about the stock market." What a wonderful learning experience. LOL
Losing $50,000 of hard-earned money in only a few weeks had a way of focusing my attention upon my level of ignorance rather spectacularly. I realized that I needed to learn a lot, so I checked out a ton of books from the library and started reading. It didn't take long before I had learned exactly how stupid I really was.
AAR, I kept trading stocks and reading about companies and gradually earned back the money I had lost and more besides. It then took another few years to refine my strategy and find ways to maximize probabilities in my favor. Lest anyone think about following in my crooked footsteps, let me issue a few words of warning. First, I have an incredible tolerance for risk, and if I think I'm right about a stock, I will buy it all the way to the bottom even if it has lost 90% of its value. Second, the stock market is a game rigged in favor of big money, and it helps to understand and accept this fact. Third, if you are not interested in learning about companies and financial ratios or are risk averse, don;t even think about getting into the stock market in anything other than an index fund.
The only time I ever lost sleep as a result of something I did in the market was when I sold a bunch of stocks in several family members' accounts and dumped a half million bucks on one single stock. Even though I made a lot of money on that trade in a very short period of time, I hope that I never do that sort of thing again. It wasn't worth three nights of limited sleep.
Uh oh. Gotta change computers again. Stay tuned......
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Post by zendancer on Jan 10, 2011 16:42:03 GMT -5
Okay, Karen has aleady outlined the most important personal finance advice--get out of debt and stay out of debt. All of the other associated advice can be found on the money thread that was posted several months ago.
If someone internalized all of the advice on that thread, then she would be ready for the next issues. (1) What can someone do with excess cash (above and beyond an emergency fund) to invest it for maximum gain while taking into consideration one's tolerance for risk? (2) Should one prepare for the possibility of a calamitous financial event, and if so, in what way? These things require some serious thought, reading, research, and self-inquiry.
Many Mormons keep a one-year supply of food on hand as well as various emergency supplies. Is this a good idea for other people? Each person has to decide how important this is for himself/herself. I suspect that once Mormons do this sort of thing, they don't spend much time thinking about it. So, if you're someone who thinks that TEOTWAWKI is a possibility, take whatever precautions seem warranted, and then forget about it. Some people, as Source, will do this. Other people, as Source, will not. This is how "what is" manifests.
Rats, this computer (I'm in a public library) is going to shut me off again. More later......
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 10, 2011 17:30:53 GMT -5
Ummm ZD we are already in the event now it's just not clear to most.
Is the Library putting timers on computers now?
Michael
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Post by popee on Jan 11, 2011 9:36:23 GMT -5
Great stories ZD, thank you. It's nice to see the personal side of the equation. Even though this is a "spiritual" site, its members are also citizens, consumers, family members. We should all seek to find the right balance between the two sides of this unusual equation. Currently, I am conflicted. I have been following the worldwide economic conditions since the collapse of Bear Stearns, practically all day, every day. I started reading the website zerohedge, and I can't stop, I've been sucked in to that mindset of 'keeping up'. I find the ongoing drama so fascinating that I'm drawn to it like a moth to flame, but two years of doom & gloom can take a toll. As for spirituality, that's more difficult to explain, but suffice it to say, that that too is .. all day, every day. michael, you're right, most people don't know how precarious the situation is, not even Ben Bernanke (if I can be so bold). There are so many interconnected global pieces to this economic jigsaw puzzle, that predictions are futile. Humans often react in herd fashion, with greed and fear being the primary drivers (or selfishness, for the spiritually inclined ) Governments around the world are desperately trying to herd the sheeple towards a peaceful outcome, but if just one big domino falls .. stay out of the way of the spooked herd. |
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Post by karen on Jan 11, 2011 12:17:10 GMT -5
I can't muster up the motivation to look at financials. I just dump cash into tech stocks and haven't looked at them since. I'll look when I'm either motivated or retired. I really don't care now. Or I'll buy some drips - like I bought some P&G drips and I guess the taxes will remind me of them, but still, I don't plan on seeing that again for a while.
Then some is taken care of by a financial adviser (of a large network) who takes 1%/year to manage my money.
If I lose it all, I'll just live in an intentional community and die happy. What's the problem?
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 11, 2011 14:43:26 GMT -5
www.ic.org/If I lose it all, I'll just live in an intentional community and die happy. What's the problem?
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Post by teetown on Jan 11, 2011 14:46:23 GMT -5
I decided the S was gonna hit the fan back in 2007. Back then there were only a few people talking about the coming recession/depression. When I talked about it, folks thought I was crazy. Then the bottom fell out of the housing market, Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros collapsed. I got real scared for a while. I bought gold and decided to learn how to grow food and work with my hands. It's been about three years and the end of the world hasn't happened yet. I'm not really worried about it anymore. Things have gotten bad but so far no Armageddon. I still think we're in for a dramatic decrease in standard of living, but it will play out over a longer period of time; say 10-20 years. Funny thing is, even though I made some dramatic changes in my life based on misguided fears, my lifestyle now is much more satisfying. I've worked on a few organic farms in the past 3 years because I wanted to learn how to grow food and be self reliant and it's been the most fun I've ever had. I got into this based on fear but now I do it because it's fun.  |
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 11, 2011 14:56:21 GMT -5
michael, you're right, most people don't know how precarious the situation is, not even Ben Bernanke (if I can be so bold). There are so many interconnected global pieces to this economic jigsaw puzzle, that predictions are futile. Humans often react in herd fashion, with greed and fear being the primary drivers (or selfishness, for the spiritually inclined ) Governments around the world are desperately trying to herd the sheeple towards a peaceful outcome, but if just one big domino falls .. stay out of the way of the spooked herd. Yeah it's something when it comes to human nature dealing with economics people can be optimistic, pessimistic, realistic but most fall into simple denial when things become bad. Even in today's info age where a sexy top model can get hit with a fallen potted plant in Milan and you know about it here in the US in less than 5 mins. Still denial is the biggest one that causes the most problems speaking from a relative pov. The US people been spoiled for so very long with this idea of always being very resilient that somehow they thing things will always come back in a few years. But from the spiritual pov Don't worry, be happy. Michael |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 11, 2011 17:20:12 GMT -5
Michael: The crazy libary computers I occasionally use while visiting a nearby city allow visitors either an hour of time or a half hour, depending on which library I visit. Sometimes they give you a five minute heads-up before they go dead and sometimes they just shut down without any warning and everything on the screen is lost. After losing some long posts on several occasions, I now log off whenever I see that there are only a few minutes left.
AAR, what I've been writing about is something that is fundamentally empty. Whether we are financially ignorant or financially savvy is all the play of Source. But to continue this thread, it should be noted that every asset category has both positives and negatives, and it takes a bit of study to decide what a suitable mix of assets in an investment portfolio ought to entail based on one's personality and preferences. Economics and finance is an entertaining game, but the people who probably enjoy it the most are often not very attached to the outcome. This is why millionaires who go bankrupt often become millionaires again. Their mindset accepts failure as an acceptable learning experience.
The basic idea with all investment assets is to buy low and sell high. This sounds simple, but the reality is a bit more complex. It often has more to do with behavior and patience than anything else. Warren Buffett has said that the only difference between an average investor and a great investor is patience, and he's probably right.
For folks who enjoy this sort of thing my Luddite strategy with the stock market goes something like this:
1. Ask people on Yahoo message boards for recommendations of their most extreme value stocks.
2. Look at the Yahoo key statistics to get an overview of the recommended stocks.
3. The most appealing stocks have a low price, a low PEG ratio, a low price/sales ratio, a low PE ratio, low debt, high book value in relation to pps, and reasonable earnings. Very few stocks meet half of these criteria, of course, so nine out of ten recommended stocks can quickly be discarded.
4. The few stocks that come close to the desired profile have to then be studied in order to understand why everyone else has bailed out of them. Are investors correct or have they over-reacted? Is a negative situation turning around? What has changed with the company that other investors may have overlooked?
5. There is usually someone on every stock board who is very knowledgeable about the company one is considering and one can piggyback on their information to reach a logical conclusion about future probabilities.
6. If one buys the stocks that seem most likely to explode in the future and then watches the price action, it is often possible to perceive what is happening behind the scenes.
7. When a stock that is seriously undervalued surges and then retreats and remains unchanged in price for days or weeks or months, it is probable that the MM’s are manipulating the price to satisfy a large investor who has spotted the value and wants to make a large purchase. If the price stays dead in the water, small retail investors eventually become frustrated and gradually sell their shares to those who are accumulating the stock. At some point the selling dries up because all the weak hands have departed, and the stock takes off. The trick is to load up along with the large investor(s) and be patient. When the stock explodes, it rarely goes straight up, so a trader can multiply the gains by playing the swings with preset sell and buy points.
Using this kind of strategy it is possible to have enormous gains when a market is rising (in the range of 50-100% per annum), but this only leads to further questions. If one makes a lot of money, what does one do with it? It only has a few uses. It can be spent, invested, or given away. Each activity is sort of a game in itself, but the process still remains empty. My goal, which is not really a goal, is to generate a self-sustaining money-generating machine that can be used to help anyone within my sphere of influence who needs help (and people who need help are pretty easy to find in this economy!). This activity can be a lot of fun, and if it works out, great. If it doesn’t work out, well… there are other things to do. LOL.
From a non-dual perspective (that’s an oxymoron pointing toward emptiness) there is never any reason to waste time worrying about the future. We simply take whatever action has to be taken at the moment, and deal with whatever happens next. It is like the Buddha’s parable about the guy who was being chased by a tiger. He came to a cliff with the tiger breathing down his neck and started climbing down a vine hanging from the cliff edge. Halfway down the vine he looked down and saw that another tiger was waiting for him at the bottom of the cliff. One of the Buddha’s disciples asked him what the man did then. The Buddha replied, “Well, while he was hanging there he spotted a juicy wild strawberry growing out of a cleft in the rock beside him, so he ate it.” The disciple said, “Then what happened?” The Buddha replied, “The man found that it was very sweet.”
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 11, 2011 17:28:55 GMT -5
Well buying long selling short works just as well as long as you see some meat inbetween.
Non dual point taken just see what happens next. However where(Geo) you may wish to see what happens next can be a choice ie Hawaii, Figi, Panama or the US..JK a bit
Michael
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Post by karen on Jan 11, 2011 22:48:58 GMT -5
Michael: The crazy libary computers I occasionally use while visiting a nearby city allow visitors either an hour of time or a half hour, depending on which library I visit. Sometimes they give you a five minute heads-up before they go dead and sometimes they just shut down without any warning and everything on the screen is lost. After losing some long posts on several occasions, I now log off whenever I see that there are only a few minutes left. ZD, scoop up some of that cash and get thee an iPad 3G posthaste! They are made for Luddites. The morningstar app is pretty nice too. |
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Post by Portto on Jan 13, 2011 7:24:23 GMT -5
That's wonderful advice for a novice in investing.
Thanks ZD, it's much appreciated!
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Post by popee on Jan 13, 2011 9:22:25 GMT -5
No novice should go anywhere near the stock or bond markets. Hire a professional to manage your money, an honest one, preferably.
All most people know about the stock market is that DJIA number news anchors say every night. Ignore that number. Most of the recent gains can be attributed to the Fed printing money, not fundamentals about corporate earnings (which it is supposed to be about).
Want a hot tip? (kidding of course) Buy into a commodities fund. Real money is going into real things, and away from paper assets.
Or, cash is king, as they say. But remember that the US dollar has lost 95% of its value since 1913 (start of the Federal Reserve) due to the impact of inflation. So long term, cash is always a loser.
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