|
Post by klaus on Dec 15, 2010 17:32:15 GMT -5
All I see is another "finger" pointing to what cannot be named. When is this pointing going to stop! Verbal detritus is just that.
Stop the insanity. We don't need it!
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Dec 15, 2010 17:53:02 GMT -5
Dear Klaus,
There has only ever been one insanity colored in so many ways. This is simply believing something that you are not.
Sorry but that insanity can only end by each person discovering for their own self. It's the addiction to self that is screaming make it stop make it stop as like a addict with his drugs. Only he can make it stop.
Michael
|
|
|
Post by klaus on Dec 15, 2010 19:07:37 GMT -5
That's right Michael. Each "person" can only discover for themselves.
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on Dec 15, 2010 19:10:57 GMT -5
Hi Michael, Reflecting on what you have said, I realize that, as you say, as I got older, I gradually "forgot" who or what I was and identified more with who I "thought" I was. It was such a slow process, that I can't remember when I became an ego. I wonder though, if I could use that same process that got me to this point, to get me back. I mean, what if I consciously focused my attention on the world and simple "forgot" who I thought I was. As opposed to withdrawing my attention from the world, to remember who I really am. Wouldn't who I really am, naturally re-establish itself? At a certain point, wouldn't I just return home so to speak and forget I even had an identity. Maybe some folks in here that have tried that method, would give me some of their input. Anyway just some meandering, feel free to respond if you like.
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Dec 15, 2010 19:21:09 GMT -5
TRF,
I do not think I am saying to withdraw attention from the world. But keep your attention in the world when you experience any emotion love, hate, lust, greed whatever allow your attention to be focus as deeply as you can on it. It's moments like this that are gifts in disguised. In each of the moments you have the opportunity to be in the I am ness, to truly see the real you seeing and experiencing this is Not That.
So attention needs to be on what is being witness and in that moment comes the chance to see who you truly are not.
Michael
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Dec 15, 2010 20:43:21 GMT -5
Hi Michael, Reflecting on what you have said, I realize that, as you say, as I got older, I gradually "forgot" who or what I was and identified more with who I "thought" I was. It was such a slow process, that I can't remember when I became an ego. I say that this isn't really what happened. You never knew what you are and never forgot anything. The newborn does not know what he is. He doesn't know anything, and yet he is free. This is not a condition of Self realization, it's just being, prior to the identification as a person. It's a state of innocence in which the knowledge 'I am a person' is absent. Innocence, once lost, cannot be regained, and so there is not a goal to return to that state. You cannot forget the concepts you have learned. The concept of personhood lies at the foundation of everything you do, including seeking liberation from that concept. Self realization is the transcendence of concepts, and is different from the absence or negating of the concepts. Transcendence is inclusive of that which is transcended. As you can see, the gurus don't forget anything, but nor do they actually remember something. They realize the obvious. The direction is always forward. It's a good exploration. I like the openness and honesty.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Dec 15, 2010 20:45:09 GMT -5
That's right Michael. Each "person" can only discover for themselves. Yes, but that doesn't mean everybody else should just shut the hell up. Hehe.
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Dec 15, 2010 20:46:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Dec 15, 2010 20:47:15 GMT -5
TRF, I do not think I am saying to withdraw attention from the world. But keep your attention in the world when you experience any emotion love, hate, lust, greed whatever allow your attention to be focus as deeply as you can on it. It's moments like this that are gifts in disguised. In each of the moments you have the opportunity to be in the I am ness, to truly see the real you seeing and experiencing this is Not That. So attention needs to be on what is being witness and in that moment comes the chance to see who you truly are not. Michael Do you mean 'what is being witnessed' or 'what is being the witness'? I may have an issue with it either way. Hehe.
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Dec 15, 2010 20:56:53 GMT -5
He he
Just what is being witness ex. I am in a bar sipping a JD on rocks I look over at the pool table and a fight breaks out instantly a nice gulp on my drink and I begin to look more into the fight I hear the wood of a cue crack in the same moment I am tapping into my I am the separation begins to widen as now I see it as a movie..anyway that's the idea. I have actually been in a situation like this and it's funny if you catch just right you feel like you have disappeared well unless something comes flying your way and hit you!
Michael
|
|
|
Post by klaus on Dec 15, 2010 22:56:01 GMT -5
That's right Michael. Each "person" can only discover for themselves. Yes, but that doesn't mean everybody else should just shut the hell up. Hehe. Maybe the time has come for these "teachers" to shut up.
|
|
|
Post by mamza on Dec 16, 2010 0:11:01 GMT -5
Now maybe I'm reading too much into this, but is this sort of like a feeling of a tv inside of a tv type deal?
Or is it more of a forgetting of self? For example, the other day I was with my family and was really 'in the zone' so to speak and I recalled on several occasions forgetting that I existed and felt that I was whatever I was looking at. I think I got too fixated on this or that, but I felt like I was almost the whole room at times.
I guess I feel like having this all explained to me gives me (in the do-er sense) point A (where I feel I am), and point B (the do-er's goal) and somehow I'm reaching for the thing in between the two not-real 'locations.'
|
|
|
Post by karen on Dec 16, 2010 0:13:31 GMT -5
Where's the off switch? hehe
|
|
|
Post by mamza on Dec 16, 2010 1:22:33 GMT -5
Ha! I didn't even think of that. Good call!
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Dec 16, 2010 11:27:01 GMT -5
Yes, but that doesn't mean everybody else should just shut the hell up. Hehe. Maybe the time has come for these "teachers" to shut up. Maybe you're right. Maybe the attitude is a little over the top.
|
|