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Post by mamza on Nov 30, 2010 3:54:08 GMT -5
Lately I've been attempting to silence my mind, and I have recently run into something weird. The more I meditate with my eyes closed, the more I become physically aware of my body. There is a strange 'tingling' sensation that spreads throughout the areas of my body that I'm directly conscious of as I let them relax. Now with enough attention, lack of attention, or whatever, I get to the point where all of my body other than my head is feeling this tingling, vibrational state.
The weird part is that on the rare occasion that I can get my head into this state as well, I get the feeling that I sort of 'snap' out of my body. Now my eyes are closed at this point, and as soon as the snap occurs I begin to see strange yellow/blue electrical type beams around me. These are different (or seem different) than the normal multicolor waves called phosphenes that I normally have when I close my eyes for long periods of time. At this point I feel like I'm experiencing sleep paralysis--my body can't move, but my mind is awake.
I'm wondering whether this is a natural part of silencing the mind, or if I'm somehow creating a distraction for myself that I should be more aware of and avoid?
Thanks, Nathan
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Post by zendancer on Nov 30, 2010 5:32:06 GMT -5
Nathan: As an experiment, try keeping the eyes half-open and unfocused. What happens if you do that?
A frontal assault on the mind is rarely successful. Where is the thought coming from that the mind needs to be silenced? How can the mind silence the mind? The more usual approach is to ignore the mind by putting attention elsewhere--sights, sounds, breathing, the body, etc. This may be what you're doing, but it isn't clear from your post.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of practice are you pursuing?
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louij
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by louij on Nov 30, 2010 8:13:34 GMT -5
I do five hours, all these descriptions above are part of the scenario of mind....... if you can still your body, relax, allow, view everything as interesting but do not attach, just look....... ignore your body and mind.... there is a portal in the silence and surrender, you will fall through. The body will do what it will do, the mind will dance on its own, soul will soar...... just have no expectations..... keep the adventure pure ......... relax, lean in. love evolve louij
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Post by Peter on Nov 30, 2010 8:31:54 GMT -5
I'm wondering whether this is a natural part of silencing the mind, or if I'm somehow creating a distraction for myself that I should be more aware of and avoid? Hi Nathan Well it certainly sounds pretty distracting! Awareness - always good, but to try to avoid it would imply some sort of judgement and effort (ie bad ). Perhaps I'd suggest accepting without indulging? I found this link that you might find relevant: www.kktanhp.com/effects_&_hindrances_of_meditation.htmGenerally if something of this sort happens to me (eyes closed!) it's because I'm starting to dream and I counter this by sitting up straighter and moving my breath up higher in my chest. Cheers, Peter
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lexi
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by lexi on Nov 30, 2010 11:50:46 GMT -5
Hi Mamza,
I'm get'n Green Light all the way.
Putting your attention in the inner energy field of the body is a portal. This connection is powerful.
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Post by mamza on Nov 30, 2010 12:57:43 GMT -5
I'll try that today and post the results I get, but typically when I focus on sight alone (achieved best while driving) my peripheral vision opens up and I can see more or less of everything in my field of vision (minus specific details). The lack of details could be because my vision is bad, but I guess I don't really know.
Doing that for long enough makes me feel a bit 'detached' from everything, and even trying to think can end in failure until I focus on my body or conjure a repetitive thought.
My usual practice is either keeping my eyes open and unfocusing my eyes to see everything at once, or closing my eyes and focusing on my body to prevent thought. Usually that turns into an attempt to spread the tingling sensation throughout my body.
You know, that could very well be what was happening--I'll keep that in mind if it happens again. If my body was asleep and my mind was aware, I guess I might not notice I was sleeping in the first place.
The green light is actually where it all started for me. The longer you keep your eyes shut, the more it develops and sort of swirls around making mental pictures...but it does so without you even trying to do it. It just happens. Sometimes it's cool and you can see a shark float by, and other times it's just some back-light to your eyelids.
A friend of mine mentioned that the yellow/blue electrical beams resemble some sort of Kundalini energy type thing that ties your spirit to the body, and another one said it sounded like astral projection. I'm not too sure about either of these, but then again anything's possible.
Thanks for the replies! Nathan
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Post by zendancer on Nov 30, 2010 13:14:13 GMT -5
Nathan: I wasn't saying to look at anything. I was simply suggesting that you experiment with the classic form of meditation. The eyes are directed downward at about a forty-five degree angle, half closed (or half open), relaxed, and unfocused. Most meditation teachers do not recommend meditating with the eyes closed because people often fall asleep or they focus on visual phenomena.
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Post by m on Nov 30, 2010 14:34:11 GMT -5
Zendancer, I quite understood your first post. Feels good to have you here on this forum. m
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Post by mamza on Nov 30, 2010 18:31:31 GMT -5
I've spent the past six hours (little of which has been 'successful') or so getting into the groove of the technique Zendancer mentioned. I've kept my eyes half open, although my sisters mentioned a few times that I looked like I was asleep so my eyes were probably near shut occasionally.
This was somewhat difficult for me because I'm new to meditation to begin with and it isn't common for me to just snap in and 'get it' right away. What I did to counter this was to unfocus my eyes as mentioned, but also feel my breaths as they came and went. Nothing really seemed to happen other than my vision blotting or darkening once in a while and a seemingly nonjudgmental 'mindset' (not sure what word to use there). But, again, it's the first time I've tried this method and expecting results seems to be counterproductive in the first place.
Nathan
P.S. - It occurred to me that I may have misinterpreted ZD's first post when he asked what practice I'm pursuing. I thought you meant what technique am I using--if you meant practice in terms of belief system or religion I wouldn't really claim any. I don't know enough about them. Just taking a shot in the dark, really.
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Post by m on Dec 1, 2010 5:56:10 GMT -5
Do you really expect some method can "awaken you"? Once in Banares, India, a guy called Pagal Das was famous as a yoga teacher. Every morning he was teaching hatha yoga by the Ganga river. It was free, no money, nothing to give him in exange. But once you started learning with him you had to do it every single day of your life. If you missed one day and than went back to him he would kicked you out! This is what meant practice for this yogi. m I've spent the past six hours (little of which has been 'successful') or so getting into the groove of the technique Zendancer mentioned. I've kept my eyes half open, although my sisters mentioned a few times that I looked like I was asleep so my eyes were probably near shut occasionally. This was somewhat difficult for me because I'm new to meditation to begin with and it isn't common for me to just snap in and 'get it' right away. What I did to counter this was to unfocus my eyes as mentioned, but also feel my breaths as they came and went. Nothing really seemed to happen other than my vision blotting or darkening once in a while and a seemingly nonjudgmental 'mindset' (not sure what word to use there). But, again, it's the first time I've tried this method and expecting results seems to be counterproductive in the first place. Nathan P.S. - It occurred to me that I may have misinterpreted ZD's first post when he asked what practice I'm pursuing. I thought you meant what technique am I using--if you meant practice in terms of belief system or religion I wouldn't really claim any. I don't know enough about them. Just taking a shot in the dark, really.
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Post by mamza on Dec 2, 2010 18:06:25 GMT -5
Hi, m! Thanks for the reply.
I don't really think that the method will 'awaken me', as it would seem that methods tend to rely on thought processes to get from point A to point B. The methods are just useful ways of keeping track of my thoughts. I will start to use my imagination for a while and suddenly realize I'm doing so. This realization is another thought, but it's a much smaller thought that I can manage or ignore more easily than the previous thought that probably had a higher level of complication involved.
It's easier to ignore for me personally when I can see that realizing a thought forms a single loop of, "Wait, that was a thought too."
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Post by howtalk on Dec 2, 2010 19:07:35 GMT -5
Hi
From the native traditions that I followed I was told that what we think of as meditiation (still the mind) can only come with the eyes open. For stillness and perception are connected. thus to still the mind we have to in a sense overload it with sensation. Thus fishing or bowling or whatnot done in complete awareness will turn off the mind, even just for short periods.
When the eyes close- that is a signal for consciousness to dream, to shift realities- for healing or wisdom or whatnot. And mind and thought is needed to "assemble those other worlds" thus to try and meditate (as we think of that word) to quiet the mind, gets very hard when we shut the eyes, for consciousness naturally wants to shift worlds.
When the eyes are open and we try to watch, observe, or still thought- perception by reflex is going to jack up higher- so we feel more before a threshold is reached
At least, that is how these things were explained to me, and there has been much in my personal experiences to say that this might have some level of truth in it. Something to test out to see for ourselves I guess
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Post by loverofall on Dec 2, 2010 20:25:53 GMT -5
Meditation has been very hard for this mind pattern because of past experiences. A quiet mind is an emotional vulnerable mind.
Once the realization is that meditation undoes this mind, it was willing to get uncomfortable and do it more often.
This is can be a key thought to read because depending on the mind patterns and experiences meditation can speed up insights.
One other very observed pattern here and in others is learning to be comfortable with fear. The natural conditioning is fear is bad so it creates all sort of mental walls and blocks. Once fear is welcomed things start changing.
Katie Byron says to look forward to whatever you wanted to change in others that bothered you. Go deeper. Look forward to the feelings and thoughts that others cause to arise.
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Post by m on Dec 3, 2010 3:17:55 GMT -5
Fear is sure a big deal on the path. Not so fear, but the fear of fear, that stops everything. Lynne Conwell teaches a very powerful trick : Notice what you dislike the most in the other people, label it (ie : brat, stupid,weird, whatever) than do "as if "yourself were exactly that (ie : brat, stupid, weird, whatever), "put on the coat" in a way. And then do feel whaever you feel being that (ie : brat, stupid, weird, whatever). If you stick to the feeling (not to any picture or sound) you'll get through. If you keep on getting through, you may end being 100% open to what IS. The least you can get is to notice your own tricks how to escaping what-is-there which gives you a chance to get some freedom from it. Fear of fear is a good way to know whare it's happening. where to accept; which is to me if not the best path, at least a very very good way to be on the pathless path. m P.S : The same exercice wil work as well what you like the most in the other people (specially those you think are more "advanced" than you on the path :-) Meditation has been very hard for this mind pattern because of past experiences. A quiet mind is an emotional vulnerable mind. Once the realization is that meditation undoes this mind, it was willing to get uncomfortable and do it more often. This is can be a key thought to read because depending on the mind patterns and experiences meditation can speed up insights. One other very observed pattern here and in others is learning to be comfortable with fear. The natural conditioning is fear is bad so it creates all sort of mental walls and blocks. Once fear is welcomed things start changing. Katie Byron says to look forward to whatever you wanted to change in others that bothered you. Go deeper. Look forward to the feelings and thoughts that others cause to arise.
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Post by runstill on Dec 3, 2010 4:18:00 GMT -5
Hi From the native traditions that I followed I was told that what we think of as meditation (still the mind) can only come with the eyes open. For stillness and perception are connected. thus to still the mind we have to in a sense overload it with sensation. Thus fishing or bowling or whatnot done in complete awareness will turn off the mind, even just for short periods. I do something very similar while jogging and sprinting I feel the wind , listen to my breathing, listen to the sounds around me, use my peripheral vision, notice the sensations in my arms legs feet as you say overload the mind with sensation. For me this is a very effective way to turn off the mind, your right it lasts only for short periods. I was graced with a non-dual experience while taking a short rest along a small river where I run it was very brief but it changed some thing in me. That awesome moment is why I can understand what is talked about here most of the time and what I don't get right away does become clear eventually.Thanks to select posters here. I don't know what your non-dual understanding is but I share what to me was a jolting realization, that I don't exist and never have. This realization came after my ego turned back on and memory was in play. How this can be true is what I'm here to learn. I would love to hear more of your thoughts.
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