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Post by zendancer on Jan 20, 2024 11:18:07 GMT -5
Two questions for Sree IceCream. Loaded of of course. No, three questions. 1. Can you experience what you are? 2. How can you expect perfection to be otherwise? 3. Can a peace that surpasses understanding be understood? It's a bit like asking "who am I"? There is no answer that is adequate. In the Rinzai tradition all of these questions have simple answers. Some of them are playful, and in a particular way can provide a direct answer while simultaneously challenging the questioner. A good example is Rinzai's response to a monk who asked him, "Who is this True Man of No Status that you often talk about?" Rinzai grabbed the monk by his robes and shouted, "Speak! Speak!" The monk was paralyzed by this response, so Rinzai shoved him away and said in disgust, "What a dumb piece of shit this True Man of No Status can be!"  |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 20, 2024 11:18:45 GMT -5
WRONG! We are not separate from him. God himself is experiencing as a human. When he perceives reality or thought, that appearance makes him feel like he is an individual. You misunderstood the quote. What he means is that God is in all men but not all men are consciously aware of that fact. Precisely! |
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Post by andrew on Jan 20, 2024 11:52:09 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Maybe I should have skipped the word God, since for many people it carries a lot of the mainstream preconceptions.
A few responses are theoretical, intellectual, but ignored my questions above, which I deliberately pointed in another direction, toward your own experience and feeling. Someone quoted "Niz" (Nisargadatta). He also said things about "love" that suggest different meanings for the word. I'd have to dig up quotes, but I'm pretty sure he said love was his true nature, and not one of the extremes of worldly opposites, and it was something he felt directly; it was not theory.
Then, 'yes', I have. It feels like love. I didn't say it the first time because it just doesn't really lead anywhere. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 20, 2024 17:10:24 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
This personified conception of "God" is far too limited. Even atheism would be an improvement. |
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Post by DonHelado on Jan 20, 2024 17:58:17 GMT -5
Maybe I should have skipped the word God, since for many people it carries a lot of the mainstream preconceptions.
A few responses are theoretical, intellectual, but ignored my questions above, which I deliberately pointed in another direction, toward your own experience and feeling. Someone quoted "Niz" (Nisargadatta). He also said things about "love" that suggest different meanings for the word. I'd have to dig up quotes, but I'm pretty sure he said love was his true nature, and not one of the extremes of worldly opposites, and it was something he felt directly; it was not theory.
Then, 'yes', I have. It feels like love. I didn't say it the first time because it just doesn't really lead anywhere. I appreciated your previous response as well. It was somewhat intellectual, but you didn't go into spiritual professor mode; you shared your personal view and something more came through. |
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Post by DonHelado on Jan 20, 2024 18:17:59 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
Yes, I've felt that, but what was felt, or grokked, can't be communicated. Virtually every human who has ever directly apprehended the Infinite has made the same claim. I guess nothing can be communicated, without a willing and open listener, and a shared experience. In other words, a word like "green" won't mean much to another living being with no eyes, or with a different form of color vision. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 20, 2024 18:32:19 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Maybe I should have skipped the word God, since for many people it carries a lot of the mainstream preconceptions.
A few responses are theoretical, intellectual, but ignored my questions above, which I deliberately pointed in another direction, toward your own experience and feeling. Someone quoted "Niz" (Nisargadatta). He also said things about "love" that suggest different meanings for the word. I'd have to dig up quotes, but I'm pretty sure he said love was his true nature, and not one of the extremes of worldly opposites, and it was something he felt directly; it was not theory.
I didn't want to address what you wrote about "love", but this is more in depth and focused. Love is the absence of existential separation. Love is the case, always, and ever, anywhere, and for everyone. To "feel" it is to live in the absence of illusion otherwise. "Love", in this sense, is not the opposite of any other conception. There are several material, relative shadows of it. Relationships can hint at it, as can a feeling of pathos or feelings of compassion, or actions that reflect any of those. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 20, 2024 18:33:59 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
Another acid test. Only a fool tries to answer this one. Clever. Yes. I seem to recall that God rebukes anyone who had tried to answer Job at the end of the book. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 20, 2024 18:39:14 GMT -5
As Niz put it: "I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I call the world, the painter I call God. I am neither. I do not create, nor am I created. I contain all, nothing contains me... What can God give me, or take away from me? What is mine is mine and was mine even when God was not. Of course, it is a very tiny little thing, a speck — the sense 'I am', the fact of being. This is my own place, nobody gave it to me. The earth is mine; what grows on it is God's. God is my devotee and did all this for me." I've seen vids where people interpret (along the lines of, this is paraphrase from memory) the "Gnostics" as believing that the God of the bible wasn't the end-all-be-all God. As I recall that relate that to some other, less well-known religions as well. In forum-Advaita speak it would be the distinction between "Consciousness" and "Awareness". Niz used that a few times as well. |
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Post by DonHelado on Jan 20, 2024 18:40:33 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
This personified conception of "God" is far too limited. Even atheism would be an improvement. Fancy impersonal concepts are not required. Non attachment to your concepts might be.
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Post by laughter on Jan 20, 2024 18:43:45 GMT -5
This personified conception of "God" is far too limited. Even atheism would be an improvement. Fancy impersonal concepts are not required. Non attachment to your concepts might be.
Required for what? It was your question dude.  |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 21, 2024 0:18:06 GMT -5
As Niz put it: "I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I call the world, the painter I call God. I am neither. I do not create, nor am I created. I contain all, nothing contains me... What can God give me, or take away from me? What is mine is mine and was mine even when God was not. Of course, it is a very tiny little thing, a speck — the sense 'I am', the fact of being. This is my own place, nobody gave it to me. The earth is mine; what grows on it is God's. God is my devotee and did all this for me." I've seen vids where people interpret (along the lines of, this is paraphrase from memory) the "Gnostics" as believing that the God of the bible wasn't the end-all-be-all God. As I recall that relate that to some other, less well-known religions as well. In forum-Advaita speak it would be the distinction between "Consciousness" and "Awareness". Niz used that a few times as well. Meister Eckhart is hinting at that, too. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 21, 2024 5:25:50 GMT -5
WRONG! We are not separate from him. God himself is experiencing as a human. When he perceives reality or thought, that appearance makes him feel like he is an individual. That's true, but Ramakrishna was using those words to say that all men are not aware of what the word "God" points to. agreed |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 21, 2024 5:26:12 GMT -5
WRONG! We are not separate from him. God himself is experiencing as a human. When he perceives reality or thought, that appearance makes him feel like he is an individual. You misunderstood the quote. What he means is that God is in all men but not all men are consciously aware of that fact. Sure. That's correct. |
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Post by zazeniac on Jan 21, 2024 6:21:20 GMT -5
Two questions for Sree IceCream. Loaded of of course. No, three questions. 1. Can you experience what you are? 2. How can you expect perfection to be otherwise? 3. Can a peace that surpasses understanding be understood? It's a bit like asking "who am I"? There is no answer that is adequate. In the Rinzai tradition all of these questions have simple answers. Some of them are playful, and in a particular way can provide a direct answer while simultaneously challenging the questioner. A good example is Rinzai's response to a monk who asked him, "Who is this True Man of No Status that you often talk about?" Rinzai grabbed the monk by his robes and shouted, "Speak! Speak!" The monk was paralyzed by this response, so Rinzai shoved him away and said in disgust, "What a dumb piece of shit this True Man of No Status can be!" Those pesky Rinzai. What prompted the first question is something interesting RM said in one of the Jayasara renditions of "Be As You Are", He said the body can't ask "who am I" and neither can Self which made me think Self can't experience. Not that thinking or concluding anything in this game matters. It only matters that the 49ers won last night. |
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