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Post by laughter on Oct 13, 2023 8:52:03 GMT -5
Oh I bet you can guess the tune that played in my head. haha now I'm curious. Frank Sinatra? the rock/island one ... .. I'd forgotten what a good song "still krazy" was.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 14, 2023 8:57:32 GMT -5
It's been a good discussion so far. Carry on. ++++++ Just out curiosity, how much time do you guys spend each day following the news, reading, watching, discussing? And do you check the news at a specific time of the day or do you check the news randomly around the clock? Or are some of you guys on a news detox? There are a number of alt news sites that I check randomly during the day. One in particular comes out in the evening. These days I scan the summary of its talking points to decide if I need to watch to the video. The summary is usually enough. If it is a very busy news day I might check to see what the MSM is reporting/parroting. It's good to know what the otherside is saying and/or wants the unsuspecting public at large to believe. I used to do that too for a while, checking the news randomly during the day, but I noticed that it had a negative effect on my overall focus. So I reduced it to only once a day, in the evening. There was also a time when I didn't check the news at all, for years. And I didn't really miss anything.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 14, 2023 9:39:05 GMT -5
Nonsense. Of course it can be explained using LOA. It's just a matter of right context. You approach it from the wrong context. Your context is too small and you also hold some erroneous beliefs about creation in general as well as the nature of reality. What's breaking down at some point is your own incoherent hotchpotch of ideas. AFAIAC, sometimes s**t just happens. I think in terms of ~your being attracts your life~, rather than LOA. There is a continuum running from order to chaos. I have no problem with LOA operating on most of that continuum, say the upper 95%. One's being puts one somewhere on that continuum. At the ~top~ you find flow and synchronicities and a sense that everything is operating perfectly as it should be. Most people live somewhere in the middle. What I've been writing about, since last Saturday, poking, exploring, is the bottom 5% where chaos reigns. This is the realm of hardened criminals, terrorists, serial killers and others of the sort, they have no rules. This is where s**t can just happen. A group of the nasty guys of the 5%-and-lower have imposed their will and chaos upon some innocents of the higher continuum. I've ~battled~ ZD (mostly) over this issue for years. I don't mind calling my view a paradigm, I haven't made it up. For me it explains certain aspects of what happens. All this, in a nutshell, is why I said at some point LOA breaks down. You'll never convince me that the babies and toddlers who were decapitated are part of a natural flow of the universe, they are not responsible in any way for getting their heads cup off. They got caught up in an unnatural flow of the ~5%~ chaos. Everybody does not live at the same level of being, there's a continuum. And now we have a *more ordered group* trying to restore and maintain order, fighting the no-rules-chaos of a 5%, and lower-down to a negative 1%. You could even say the 2,3,4,5% are caught up in the really-nasty-1%. IOW, we have a terrible mess. There is no good outcome coming. I think we've past the point of a better-outcome. LOA, the way I use that term, is "your being attracts your life"! If you reduce LOA to a serial cause and effect theory, you're missing the point. You have to look at it in the context of jiji muge (aka interdependent origination/arising) and the eternal now (aka the point of power is in the now). Well, Abe always say "these are the best of times" because they look at it from the big picture perspective, i.e. that contrast creates desires and desires summon life force and more life force flowing means greater potential for joy. The more contrast (or variety) you have, the more options you have and the more options you have the more choices you have and the more choices you have the more opportunities for joy you have. In times of heightened contrast, when you know very clearly what you absolutely do not want, you also automatically know what you absolutely do want. And here you have a choice. Either you stay focused on what you do not want and argue against it, or you turn your focus on what you actually do want and argue for that. Apparently, you chose the first option, while I chose the second option. The difference in experience between these two choices of focus is huge after a while. You see, the news give you an extremely disproportionate picture of the world in terms of what goes well and what goes wrong. You'll notice that once you get a bit around in the world, on different continents and in different cultures. There are terrible things happening, no doubt. But there are also wonderful things happening at the same time. But the news media, which lives from the attention of people like you, has to somehow get your attention and they discovered that they best get your attention with negative news, and not with facts but with emotions, and not presented in a fair and balanced way but in a highly partial and exaggerated way. So don't expect the news media to give you an accurate and balanced picture of the world, that would not be in their best interest, it would destroy their business model. So keep that mind next time you are reading or watching the news.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 14, 2023 9:49:08 GMT -5
It's been a good discussion so far. Carry on. ++++++ Just out curiosity, how much time do you guys spend each day following the news, reading, watching, discussing? And do you check the news at a specific time of the day or do you check the news randomly around the clock? Or are some of you guys on a news detox? Always a junkie, but this latest turn of events has narrowed the sources that aren't completely polluted to an even narrower set than in the last decade or so. Certain situations are quite revealing, despite the seemingly ever-intensifying problem of allowing the absence of deception to leak out from around the sides of what gets presented. The leaking out from the sides part is the only reason that I still follow the news. As you know, I am a big picture, meta-level guy. So it's times like these when people who cannot focus get lost in the noise, but when those who can take a step back at the same time can see the fingerprints of the magicians, and sometimes can even witness how they are tweaking the matrix in real-time.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 14, 2023 9:55:40 GMT -5
Here's a quote from Seth: This of course implicates the question of complicity in a network of pain and trauma. It also suggests a sort of balance that certainly manifests in the bigger picture of the natural world, but that doesn't seem to me to fit with the human psyche. Perhaps my take on this is unduly colored by the notion of supply and demand. Would we really expect there to be as many volunteer wombs as there are curious souls? I also hesitate to completely embrace such a self-sufficient explanation. This channeling has some compelling aspects to it, for sure, but not all of my reservations are grounded in common mind, like, at all. There's a fair bit of higher level anthropomorphizing going on, I'd admit. But as a counterpoint, Seth's story is a much better story than the one SDP has to offer in terms of personal suffering potential. SDP is lost in the specifics, so it looks extra bleak because it is so narrow. Seth goes more into the big picture perspective, so it looks brighter because it is so much broader.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 14, 2023 9:57:10 GMT -5
It always seemed to me that folks are only ready when they feel that they've suffered enough. Until then, they can't hear what I have to say. Vewy weird! Suffering comes with a component of stubbornness....stubbornness and receptivity are not a good match! Folks have to be ready to drop stubbornness. That's a good point. When suffering becomes part of your identity, it's hard to break loose.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 14, 2023 10:18:34 GMT -5
AFAIAC, sometimes s**t just happens. I think in terms of ~your being attracts your life~, rather than LOA. There is a continuum running from order to chaos. I have no problem with LOA operating on most of that continuum, say the upper 95%. One's being puts one somewhere on that continuum. At the ~top~ you find flow and synchronicities and a sense that everything is operating perfectly as it should be. Most people live somewhere in the middle. What I've been writing about, since last Saturday, poking, exploring, is the bottom 5% where chaos reigns. This is the realm of hardened criminals, terrorists, serial killers and others of the sort, they have no rules. This is where s**t can just happen. A group of the nasty guys of the 5%-and-lower have imposed their will and chaos upon some innocents of the higher continuum. I've ~battled~ ZD (mostly) over this issue for years. I don't mind calling my view a paradigm, I haven't made it up. For me it explains certain aspects of what happens. All this, in a nutshell, is why I said at some point LOA breaks down. You'll never convince me that the babies and toddlers who were decapitated are part of a natural flow of the universe, they are not responsible in any way for getting their heads cup off. They got caught up in an unnatural flow of the ~5%~ chaos. Everybody does not live at the same level of being, there's a continuum. And now we have a *more ordered group* trying to restore and maintain order, fighting the no-rules-chaos of a 5%, and lower-down to a negative 1%. You could even say the 2,3,4,5% are caught up in the really-nasty-1%. IOW, we have a terrible mess. There is no good outcome coming. I think we've past the point of a better-outcome. One problem here is that you're butting up into the limits of common sense. Common mind demands characterization of events as either random or inevitable, but reality, is neither. LOA in the way reefs explains it strikes me as sort of altogether sideways to these dichotomies. But it's still after-the-fact, an overlay, a description of a pattern that manifests. To reconcile the suffering of innocents requires a particular perspective that is transcendent of the sort of levels you're interested in. This reconciliation does not involve acceptance. It does not involve denying the intensity of the pain and suffering involved, and it does not blame the victim. It is beyond blame, even while accounting for accountability. There is no way to earn this perspective, although if you constrict your mind around refusal of what you imagine it to be, you create your own veil obscuring the possibility of it. To my eye, the least distorted conceptual hint of this perspective is ourboros' interdependent origination, but on the other hand, as Low said .. "arose the mind ...". You're not supposed to resolve this situation with mind or emotion. Never mind that it's not possible. Yes, see my previous post to SDP. If you look at LOA or creation serially, you will get it wrong. You have to look at it in the mutual, interdependent arising context. So in a sense, LOA does transcend the usual confines of duality, but at the same time it is also just another overlay on THIS, even though it may trump all other mental overlays. That's why I sometimes say it is somewhere in the twilight zone between duality and non-duality. That shouldn't be mistaken as a bridge though. It may be an important piece to the puzzle of creation, but in no way does a full understanding of LOA give you an even fuller understanding of non-duality. There is no such relation. However, if you want to be a master of the two worlds, as Campbell phrased it, you have to know about both LOA and non-duality.
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Post by laughter on Oct 14, 2023 10:52:52 GMT -5
Always a junkie, but this latest turn of events has narrowed the sources that aren't completely polluted to an even narrower set than in the last decade or so. Certain situations are quite revealing, despite the seemingly ever-intensifying problem of allowing the absence of deception to leak out from around the sides of what gets presented. The leaking out from the sides part is the only reason that I still follow the news. As you know, I am a big picture, meta-level guy. So it's times like these when people who cannot focus get lost in the noise, but when those who can take a step back at the same time can see the fingerprints of the magicians, and sometimes can even witness how they are tweaking the matrix in real-time. That's perhaps a bigger ask that I'd expect but then I have to question that thought on my part as what inavalen might call out as a limiting belief. People who followed the news were less surprised by the Great Toilet Paper Shortage of 2020 than those who didn't. In a wider context, people who've followed the news for decades are presented with an opportunity to free themselves from the manipulation by fear, if, by no other means than jadedness.
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Post by tenka on Oct 14, 2023 14:32:54 GMT -5
I have to say: your reply rubs me wrong. So, my response will be to ignore it. I can see why that could rub you wrong. SDP has direct experience of a 'dark night of the soul', and I surmise that intrinsic to any 'dark night', there is a sense of choicelessness to it. I am reminded of a guy called Jeff Foster...who is known in non-dual circles. Recently had Lyme disease and documented it. It left him begging to God for mercy. He's on the mend now. One thing I can say with sureness, is that in these moments of begging, all belief goes out of the window. Every scrap of spiritual ideology. And I think there's value in that for most folks that experience it, as awful as it is in the moment. To be clear, I absolutely do not wish that for you or anyone! I have learned that people have their own unique spiritual paths with their own lessons...some suffer, some don't. I have come to appreciate that diversity. And for those that do suffer, I wish for them to speedily move through it. We have touched upon this before regarding a complete turnaround regarding Jeff. He seems a nice guy doesn't he, butt it really does require attention when peeps start to talk about no-one is here, or what is here is not real etc .. He kant of had a realisation that there is no one here, to then beg for mercy to God lol . You kant have a reversal of realisation. You either realise without any doubt that there is what you are here as an individual or not. You kant change your mind afterwards to that extent otherwise the realisation wasn't a realisation at all. A realisation, is a realisation .
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Post by inavalan on Oct 14, 2023 15:14:16 GMT -5
I can see why that could rub you wrong. SDP has direct experience of a 'dark night of the soul', and I surmise that intrinsic to any 'dark night', there is a sense of choicelessness to it. I am reminded of a guy called Jeff Foster...who is known in non-dual circles. Recently had Lyme disease and documented it. It left him begging to God for mercy. He's on the mend now. One thing I can say with sureness, is that in these moments of begging, all belief goes out of the window. Every scrap of spiritual ideology. And I think there's value in that for most folks that experience it, as awful as it is in the moment. To be clear, I absolutely do not wish that for you or anyone! I have learned that people have their own unique spiritual paths with their own lessons...some suffer, some don't. I have come to appreciate that diversity. And for those that do suffer, I wish for them to speedily move through it. We have touched upon this before regarding a complete turnaround regarding Jeff. He seems a nice guy doesn't he, butt it really does require attention when peeps start to talk about no-one is here, or what is here is not real etc .. He kant of had a realisation that there is no one here, to then beg for mercy to God lol . You kant have a reversal of realisation. You either realise without any doubt that there is what you are here as an individual or not. You kant change your mind afterwards to that extent otherwise the realisation wasn't a realisation at all. A realisation, is a realisation . "Who would've thought about this?" is one of the excuses I find (almost always) unacceptable. Talking about "realizations"... I don't know if you ever experienced a "false awakening"; that is when you're dreaming, then you wake up, have some activity, then suddenly you wake up again to realize that your previous awakening was actually another dream. Also, you might've watched one of those hypnosis shows in which a person is suggested to not see his shoe in his hand, or forget their own name, or a number, or to speak, ... Just looking around you can easily see people being absolutely sure about all kind of ridiculous things regarding themselves and / or others. Look at a kid who believes in Santa. From another perspective, we all are kids of different ages and abilities. There is no way to "ultimately realize" anything, beyond that you exist, and that what you perceive changes. " Realizing without any doubt" anything should be a warning for you that you have to step back, put aside all your beliefs and expectations, and start again. Knowing isn't cumulative, but it is a process or differentiation, seeing more and more clearly, new and more details, ad infinitum. As I understand these, in the sense you seem to mean it: there are no realizations.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 15, 2023 6:27:10 GMT -5
It's been a good discussion so far. Carry on. ++++++ Just out curiosity, how much time do you guys spend each day following the news, reading, watching, discussing? And do you check the news at a specific time of the day or do you check the news randomly around the clock? Or are some of you guys on a news detox? I have my eye out for *progressively worse*. I have a few programs I watch normally, just entertainment. I watched most of the Carolina Hurricanes first game of the season last night. If I am otherwise occupied, I usually have TV on but sound off, so I can notice if there's a story I'd be interested in, mostly heartbreaking accounts of incidents from last Saturday. Presently, this mess is still relatively small. If Hezbollah enters the fight, then we'll have a real mess. I never knew much about Harper's Ferry, just before the Civil War. Saw most of the 'Ethan Hawk' as John Brown mini series a while back. I think we might have a similar situation, presently. John Brown could not draw others into his fight, as he had planned. That came a short while later. Hopefully this stays in Gaza. Did Hamas miscalculate? I don't know that we know wtf Hamas is/was up to. I stopped watching TV in the mid 90's. The TV's in our apartments are only for decoration, hehe.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 15, 2023 6:40:05 GMT -5
It's been a good discussion so far. Carry on. ++++++ Just out curiosity, how much time do you guys spend each day following the news, reading, watching, discussing? And do you check the news at a specific time of the day or do you check the news randomly around the clock? Or are some of you guys on a news detox? It varies. A couple of weeks ago, it was almost zero. Last few days, a few hours on twitter daily (it's about the only place I go for news, though I follow a vast array of people). Though mostly, I'm not 'looking' for news per se, it's more that the movement is there to engage on a subject in a particular way, sometimes with a particular group of people. The news absorption happens as I'm doing that. I explored twitter for a while and it was kinda fun. But you get lost there easily and it gives you the false impression that your voice may actually matter more than it actually does in reality, because usually you are isolated in your own personal little twitter bubble. What I liked about twitter was the meme culture, which is often surprisingly creative and high quality.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 15, 2023 6:43:40 GMT -5
One problem here is that you're butting up into the limits of common sense. Common mind demands characterization of events as either random or inevitable, but reality, is neither. LOA in the way reefs explains it strikes me as sort of altogether sideways to these dichotomies. But it's still after-the-fact, an overlay, a description of a pattern that manifests. To reconcile the suffering of innocents requires a particular perspective that is transcendent of the sort of levels you're interested in. This reconciliation does not involve acceptance. It does not involve denying the intensity of the pain and suffering involved, and it does not blame the victim. It is beyond blame, even while accounting for accountability. There is no way to earn this perspective, although if you constrict your mind around refusal of what you imagine it to be, you create your own veil obscuring the possibility of it. To my eye, the least distorted conceptual hint of this perspective is ourboros' interdependent origination, but on the other hand, as Low said .. "arose the mind ...". You're not supposed to resolve this situation with mind or emotion. Never mind that it's not possible. I've never found anything the Gurdjieff teaching doesn't explain. (Above, trying to avoid the words he used, what he called the law of accident. This is why 'your being attracts your life' trumps LOA). "Your being attracts your life" is LOA. Watch some more A-H videos and pay attention to those parts where Abe talk about "state of being" and "point of attraction".
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Post by Reefs on Oct 15, 2023 6:48:22 GMT -5
The leaking out from the sides part is the only reason that I still follow the news. As you know, I am a big picture, meta-level guy. So it's times like these when people who cannot focus get lost in the noise, but when those who can take a step back at the same time can see the fingerprints of the magicians, and sometimes can even witness how they are tweaking the matrix in real-time. That's perhaps a bigger ask that I'd expect but then I have to question that thought on my part as what inavalen might call out as a limiting belief. People who followed the news were less surprised by the Great Toilet Paper Shortage of 2020 than those who didn't. In a wider context, people who've followed the news for decades are presented with an opportunity to free themselves from the manipulation by fear, if, by no other means than jadedness. Well, I don't have high expectations regarding regular people. But from folks who regularly talk about quieting the mind, meditation and awareness, as is the case here, I'd expect a bit more.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 15, 2023 6:59:30 GMT -5
I can see why that could rub you wrong. SDP has direct experience of a 'dark night of the soul', and I surmise that intrinsic to any 'dark night', there is a sense of choicelessness to it. I am reminded of a guy called Jeff Foster...who is known in non-dual circles. Recently had Lyme disease and documented it. It left him begging to God for mercy. He's on the mend now. One thing I can say with sureness, is that in these moments of begging, all belief goes out of the window. Every scrap of spiritual ideology. And I think there's value in that for most folks that experience it, as awful as it is in the moment. To be clear, I absolutely do not wish that for you or anyone! I have learned that people have their own unique spiritual paths with their own lessons...some suffer, some don't. I have come to appreciate that diversity. And for those that do suffer, I wish for them to speedily move through it. We have touched upon this before regarding a complete turnaround regarding Jeff. He seems a nice guy doesn't he, butt it really does require attention when peeps start to talk about no-one is here, or what is here is not real etc .. He kant of had a realisation that there is no one here, to then beg for mercy to God lol . You kant have a reversal of realisation. You either realise without any doubt that there is what you are here as an individual or not. You kant change your mind afterwards to that extent otherwise the realisation wasn't a realisation at all. A realisation, is a realisation . Exactly. It's all BS. But that was clear from his books already. The episode Andrew mentioned just confirmed it beyond a doubt. Now, we could accuse Jeff of deceiving and misleading other people. However, I usually see it a bit differently. Because fake gurus and their transgressions and shortcomings are usually good teaching examples. And his disillusioned followers may now be ready for the real deal. You've seen this with Niz. A lot of disillusioned, guru-hopping seekers who made the rounds in the spiritual circus for years or even decades, finally had to face the music after such episodes, realizing that they were going nowhere and just killing time and avoiding the inevitable. Once they've realized that, there was sincerity, and now they were ready for Niz' message. That's the gift of these fake gurus. So from the big picture perspective, it's all good.
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