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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:31:15 GMT -5
I hear your interpretation and welcome it.. though I'm still not able to put such an interpretation into these words. biblehub.com/psalms/51-5.htmPick the Aramaic and JPS Tanakh translation. No, sorry. Still doesn't fit. Laughter talks of an eventual onset of a 'false sense of self'. Those translations don't say that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:35:48 GMT -5
Ok. So faith in Jeshua is being asked for? To be saved from what? Or is this all just primitive psychology again? The word salvation comes from healing, it means to be made whole. So, when you come to the word salvation, read it: If thou would be made whole... It opens up the meaning. Ok, so a man has to have faith in his brother Jesus, as the son of a King to be able to know his own wholeness?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:46:28 GMT -5
I am just finding the reason as to why death occupies other people other than Adam if it is not original sin. I think the same was written by Paul somewhere but I don't know where because it's been long time ever since I read Bible. We inherit the consequences of Adam's sin, but not his guilt. Physical death is one of the consequences. It's complicated and deep, the full story. Mystical Judaism considers there are four different ways to read and interpret scripture. Peshat, Remez, Drash, Sod paulproblem.faithweb.com/pardes.htm biblehub.com/2_chronicles/9-13.htm
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 29, 2019 12:49:08 GMT -5
The word salvation comes from healing, it means to be made whole. So, when you come to the word salvation, read it: If thou would be made whole... It opens up the meaning. Ok, so a man has to have faith in his brother Jesus, as the son of a King to be able to know his own wholeness? No, nobody has to know Jesus. When you have some time and wish to, read Matthew 5, 6 & 7, the Sermon on the Mount. That's it in a nutshell.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:51:09 GMT -5
Ok, so a man has to have faith in his brother Jesus, as the son of a King to be able to know his own wholeness? No, nobody has to know Jesus. When you have some time and wish to, read Matthew 5, 6 & 7, the Sermon on the Mount. That's it in a nutshell. It said in your link.. "A Christian need only believe in Jesus to be saved; nothing else is required of her." Now you're saying that's not true?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:53:18 GMT -5
Thanks. I've run across Nash before. As I recall he's a Christian philosopher/theologian. I might have to get this book, sounds interesting. (I still *do battle* sometimes with family, several are ministers). I've never read Confessions by Augustine. (Basically because of disgusting original sin). I've read about the battle between Augustine and Pelagius however. Pelagius was a Celtic Christian. Augustine taught that all baby's that die not baptized, go to hell. Pelagius disagreed. So now we call Pelagius a heretic, but he was a hero. Stumbled onto this series a few months ago. In the lecture including Augustine (of Hippo), Freedman explains that some early Christians waited until the end of their lives before they got baptized. He gives this point context by referring back to Constantine, who wasn't technically a Christian, even as he convened the council of Nicea, because he wasn't baptized until his deathbed. The reason for Constantine's delay, and the fashion of others to wait during their lives was because the standards of Christianity were hard to live by, especially for members of the elite. So, the idea of baptizing infants and allowing for sin during the course of one's life that could be forgiven during that life was a sort of practical innovation. Interesting, thanks.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 29, 2019 12:56:52 GMT -5
Pick the Aramaic and JPS Tanakh translation. No, sorry. Still doesn't fit. Laughter talks of an eventual onset of a 'false sense of self'. Those translations don't say that. False sense of self and true self, all over the Bible. I will come back to this, but off the top of my head; Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, King Saul and King David. The first born is false sense of self, the second born is the true self (but it traditionally should be reversed). ......gotta go...be back...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 13:02:12 GMT -5
No, sorry. Still doesn't fit. Laughter talks of an eventual onset of a 'false sense of self'. Those translations don't say that. False sense of self and true self, all over the Bible. I will come back to this, but off the top of my head; Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, King Saul and King David. The first born is false sense of self, the second born is the true self (but it traditionally should be reversed). ......gotta go...be back... No rush. See you next time..
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 29, 2019 14:11:26 GMT -5
False sense of self and true self, all over the Bible. I will come back to this, but off the top of my head; Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, King Saul and King David. The first born is false sense of self, the second born is the true self (but it traditionally should be reversed). ......gotta go...be back... No rush. See you next time.. Had a pizza pick up. Ephesians 4:22-24 and Colossians 3:9,10, false sense of self and true self.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 14:29:03 GMT -5
No rush. See you next time.. Had a pizza pick up. Ephesians 4:22-24 and Colossians 3:9,10, false sense of self and true self. Sorry Pilgrim, but I'm not seeing the link. That just seems to enforce what were trying to move away from. I completely get that people grow up and learn that what wasn't any good for them either ends or kills them young. Though Babies are born as the true self, and to try to corrupt that obvious principle by saying that they're evil in the womb is atrocious. And anyone that feels 'righteous' about such an idea needs to have a word with themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 14:30:50 GMT -5
Hope your pizza was delish.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 29, 2019 17:18:02 GMT -5
Had a pizza pick up. Ephesians 4:22-24 and Colossians 3:9,10, false sense of self and true self. Sorry Pilgrim, but I'm not seeing the link. That just seems to enforce what were trying to move away from. I completely get that people grow up and learn that what wasn't any good for them either ends or kills them young. Though Babies are born as the true self, and to try to corrupt that obvious principle by saying that they're evil in the womb is atrocious. And anyone that feels 'righteous' about such an idea needs to have a word with themselves. I agree. And I don't think the Bible teaches this. I'm not sure what you're asking for.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 29, 2019 17:22:36 GMT -5
Hope your pizza was delish. OK, cheap. Papa John's.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 17:25:21 GMT -5
Sorry Pilgrim, but I'm not seeing the link. That just seems to enforce what were trying to move away from. I completely get that people grow up and learn that what wasn't any good for them either ends or kills them young. Though Babies are born as the true self, and to try to corrupt that obvious principle by saying that they're evil in the womb is atrocious. And anyone that feels 'righteous' about such an idea needs to have a word with themselves. I agree. And I don't think the Bible teaches this. I'm not sure what you're asking for. Ok. So you're just outlining that the Bible teaches about a worldly self that can be corrupted by the world and an innate universal self that is restored to wholeness by being honest to itself and everyone else?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 29, 2019 17:55:52 GMT -5
I agree. And I don't think the Bible teaches this. I'm not sure what you're asking for. Ok. So you're just outlining that the Bible teaches about a worldly self that can be corrupted by the world and an innate universal self that is restored to wholeness by being honest to itself and everyone else? Essentially. Anybody can access the wholeness. If Christianity taught from what Jesus taught (the red) and not so much from what Paul taught, Christianity would be much different.
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