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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 6:08:50 GMT -5
FWIW, I'd much rather have fewer posts, but posts that are interesting, stay on topic, open-mindedly and impersonally discuss various ND issues without rancor, giraffes, ad hominem, and endless arguments designed to show how enlightened one is versus others. That's the reason that I've never visited the gab forum and probably never will. Show me a single attacking comment in Gab. Show me a single abusive comment in Gab. Show me a single comment. But I can show you 1000 comments here. These kind of attacks are reduced after Reefs became a moderator but not before.
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Post by Reefs on Feb 18, 2020 6:51:57 GMT -5
You are trying too hard to move conversations/members over to Gab. Doing that once, I don't mind. But making a habit out of it, I find that kind of behavior rather dubious and just short of spamming. As Shawn once said, peddling of books in the marketing section only. And that would include websites, blogs and forums. If you notice his comment carefully, he is writing about the forum movement and I started writing comment about that. And as you might have noticed by now that there are no interesting on going conversation is happening here in ST but it's happening in Gab. I open ST once in a day atleast in a guest mode to see anything interesting shows up. Then I hope you can finally stop this nonsense on ST. Good luck and bee well!
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Post by Reefs on Feb 18, 2020 6:52:39 GMT -5
FWIW, I'd much rather have fewer posts, but posts that are interesting, stay on topic, open-mindedly and impersonally discuss various ND issues without rancor, giraffes, ad hominem, and endless arguments designed to show how enlightened one is versus others. That's the reason that I've never visited the gab forum and probably never will. Show me a single attacking comment in Gab. Show me a single abusive comment in Gab. Show me a single comment. But I can show you 1000 comments here. These kind of attacks are reduced after Reefs became a moderator but not before. Is that a challenge? Are you sure you wanna go there?
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Post by andrew on Feb 18, 2020 6:53:19 GMT -5
aye, could well just be/have been a flight of nostalgia. Fig-Andrew lol yes, I got a slight twinge of nostalgia there...that one has definitely gone the way of the dodo. Though perhaps that expression is just a bit too 'final', I guess we can't totally rule out a possibility one day of a return of Fig-Andrew! Please just do me the favour though of being aware of the possibility of forum stultification from which there's no way forward with the current approach. Folks have to feel 'welcome' to share. I'm not sure the energy of inspiration is strong right now. Even my old arch nemesis SN seems more inspired to talk at Gab than here these days (Hi SN!). 1) First off, I think you are confusing Gab with ST in terms of being more inspiring. I don't see anyone here continuously copy&pasting content from Gab and reposting it on ST so that we have something to discuss here. And I also have seen no attempts of trying to siphon off members or moving conversations from Gab over to ST. Have you? It's actually the other way around! Secondly, while I do see your point that moderation can either promote or prevent conversation from happening, I also think that you put too much emphasis on this one factor alone. I'm basically with ZD on this. A forum is interesting because its members are interesting. A varied and interesting membership makes for varied and interesting discussion forum. Maybe this analogy helps: You can compare the membership of a forum to a car, the mods/admin to the driver and the content created based on the varied interests to the gas in the tank. Good car, good driver, full gas tank - awesome ride all over town, forum thrives. Bad car, bad driver, no gas in the tank - no ride at all, forum goes into hibernation. Good car, good driver, no gas in the tank - still no ride at all, forum still goes into hibernation. Bad car, bad driver but gas in the tank, forum keeps tucking along. So, I think you've got the order of importance of these factors all mixed up. 2) The core of your complaint actually reminded me of what A-H keep saying, that people rather feel negative emotion than no emotion at all. And I think this applies to you right now. So let’s look at it this way, using the emotional guidance scale. And in that regard, this forum has actually changed significantly. During the last crusade/dead-horse-beating phase, the average set point was probably between #17 and #19. Now it’s mostly a consistent #8 or #7. Gab still mostly at around #18. If we look at the replies to your complaint so far, I’d rate it like this: Laffy: #4 ZD: #5 Zeniac: #8 Andrew: #10 Enigma: #15 Gopal: #16 Now, someone at #19 naturally finds someone at #4 intolerable. On the other hand, someone at #4 may actually find someone at #19 to be funny. Point being, neither can actually relate. They’ve got nothing to say to each other. So there’s nothing happening. Now you see, you’re much closer to Enigma than ZD or Laffy, and Zeniac is somewhere in the middle. That’s why Enigma has been praising your courage to speak up against the evil ST mod dictatorship, that's why Zeniac can see your point and felt somewhat supportive and why ZD and Laffy don’t see it as much of an issue; Laffy even seems to make the point that this is just due to a little schmutz on yours and Enigma’s lenses, that is currently distorting your perception, i.e. a minor error in vision that can be easily corrected (if there is such a desire). This should also make it clear why currently, ST has more to offer to you than Gab; and in Enigma’s case, Gab has more to offer than ST. But in either case, none is actually fully satisfying to any of you. So there’s basically two ways of going about it. Either change your emotional set point and move up the scale so that your set point matches the new ST set point (or move down the scale so that your set point matches Gab); or we change the rules so that everyone can move down the scale again together. And what I heard you suggesting is basically exactly that, going back to #19. To which I’d reply: Hell no! We’ve come all this way. Why would you want to go all the way back down to the bottom again? okay, it's fine, I've let it go.
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Post by Reefs on Feb 18, 2020 6:55:44 GMT -5
okay, it's fine, I've let it go. Then end of an era maybe, not the end of a forum.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 15:37:11 GMT -5
But at the time, he does mean them. Yes, no doubt. However, in order for that to work, he has to mean it with his entire being. This is an interesting topic, how to change unhealthy behavior/habits permanently for the better. I don't have foolproof solution, but when the time is right, it just happens spontaneously and effortlessly. Otherwise, the best option seems to be taking little baby steps into the direction you want to go. What would you suggest?Outgrowing a pattern of behaviour doesn't happen overnight. It's the known and the known is always safe.. though as you say there will come a time when the known can no longer serve it's initial purpose, because it's the initial purpose that has been outgrown. I'm reminded of Jed McKenna's understanding of this process.. there are two distinct aspects. Identifying the pattern then being honest about the emotional attachment to it. Releasing the emotional attachment is what I would call an outgrowing.
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Post by laughter on Feb 18, 2020 22:44:02 GMT -5
@ laughter: Indeed, there’s a season for everything and as I keep saying, this forum is always good for a surprise. Re: delusions, it’s unfortunate that WIBIGO is mostly understood as just a one-way street. Yeah, it's not so much really. But WIBIGO is a wonderful thing because it's neither subjective, nor objective. It's just, you know, WIBIGO. We all have our blind spots. uh. Ok. (** slaps reefs across control cheek **) I agree that challenging of views and even realization status can happen here without fear of auto-moderation, and I've even deliberately, publicly and openly insulted you personally within the last year. The warning messages about frequency and holding onto a personal focus ("crusading") fell on deaf ears, and I actually did a stint over on gab about that months ago now. E' & ZD's dialogs over the years here have been some of the deepest, most free of ego, and interesting in their differential of outlook and expression. My take on E's position is other than as you've described it. My guess is you're not really all that interested in the details, but the cliff notes version is I doubt he's concerned with a loss of respect. Ranking content by emotional scale or questioning realization status or critiquing what someone considers non-conceptual pointing can be contentious. Doing this as moderator - at the same time you might be taking moderation action or there is a perceived possibility of that - poses certain challenges to the subjects involved that will seem unfair to them, and there's an objective component to that. This isn't to suggest you shouldn't do it or to characterize it as otherwise negative, simply to point that out. It is what it is, and the beat will roll on.
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Post by Reefs on Feb 19, 2020 2:35:02 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not so much really. But WIBIGO is a wonderful thing because it's neither subjective, nor objective. It's just, you know, WIBIGO. We all have our blind spots. In theory it's a wonderful thing. In the wrong hands, it's a terrible thing. There's been a lot of abuse happening on this forum under the guise of WIBIGO. I agree that challenging of views and even realization status can happen here without fear of auto-moderation, and I've even deliberately, publicly and openly insulted you personally within the last year. The warning messages about frequency and holding onto a personal focus ("crusading") fell on deaf ears, and I actually did a stint over on gab about that months ago now. Let's hope your stint was worth it and earned you some brownie points with the resistance crowd over there on Gab. E' & ZD's dialogs over the years here have been some of the deepest, most free of ego, and interesting in their differential of outlook and expression. My take on E's position is other than as you've described it. My guess is you're not really all that interested in the details, but the cliff notes version is I doubt he's concerned with a loss of respect. If you are referring to strictly direct communication between ZD and E, this is mostly true. It is, however, quite a distortion if you include indirect references, or what E has to say about ZD on Gab. Then, unfortunately, it’s the exact opposite. I'm sure you'll understand that, when discussing any Enigma related issues with you that I have to take your input with two extra large grains of salt, so I'll just leave it at that. Ranking content by emotional scale or questioning realization status or critiquing what someone considers non-conceptual pointing can be contentious. Doing this as moderator - at the same time you might be taking moderation action or there is a perceived possibility of that - poses certain challenges to the subjects involved that will seem unfair to them, and there's an objective component to that. You still do remember that the whole purpose of the parent site of this forum is to rank (*gasp!*) other folks according to their realization status, right? But joking aside, it's unavoidable. Even if you don't want to do it, you'll do it inadvertently here and there. Re: the abuse of power issue. I don't think it's as much of an issue as it has been in your days as mod. I post rather little and more infrequently in comparison. So there's much less of a risk to get carried away. The potential is always there, of course. What I want you to also consider though, and you may remember this from your own days as mod, is that the topic of potential abuse if power can actually go both ways. Some peeps here regularly try to use this potential abuse of power scare to their own advantage in order to further their own agenda or just to extend their stay here beyond what the rules would normally allow. Not everyone who cries victim is really a victim. Very often they are just master manipulators who have discovered victimhood as a useful tool. So this can be tricky business and some extra discernment is required on both ends. This isn't to suggest you shouldn't do it or to characterize it as otherwise negative, simply to point that out. It is what it is, and the beat will roll on. As always, your input is appreciated. Now, back to topic! (I had a book in the mail yesterday )
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Post by lolly on Feb 19, 2020 16:23:14 GMT -5
Show me a single attacking comment in Gab. Show me a single abusive comment in Gab. Show me a single comment. But I can show you 1000 comments here. These kind of attacks are reduced after Reefs became a moderator but not before. Is that a challenge? Are you sure you wanna go there? All the talk about Gab works to take members across because I heard the talk and went across. I opened the first thread, went to the last page, and the first post thereon includes: "You're a complete penis" (Satch, 2020) - So, you see, not only has Gopal's mention enticed me to go and see, but defeated his challenge in a one punch KO.
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Post by lolly on Feb 19, 2020 16:29:43 GMT -5
BTW, Zen, just to inform you (as you have not been to see), the thread I mentioned opens by quoting one of your STF posts.
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Post by lolly on Feb 19, 2020 16:31:13 GMT -5
Checkmate, Gopal
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Post by zendancer on Feb 19, 2020 17:00:27 GMT -5
BTW, Zen, just to inform you (as you have not been to see), the thread I mentioned opens by quoting one of your STF posts. Why am I not surprised?
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Post by lolly on Feb 19, 2020 18:28:15 GMT -5
All the talk about Gab works to take members across because I heard the talk and went across. I opened the first thread, went to the last page, and the first post thereon includes: "You're a complete penis" (Satch, 2020) - So, you see, not only has Gopal's mention enticed me to go and see, but defeated his challenge in a one punch KO.
since I'm the one who got called a penis... I didn't take Satch's comment to be either abusive or attacking, I think he tries to push peoples' buttons There's not really a better example of verbal abuse, but that's not to say you were personally offended by it, and when you realise the irony of what the statement imples, it does seem rather impotent I think.
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Post by Reefs on Feb 22, 2020 0:18:23 GMT -5
Is that a challenge? Are you sure you wanna go there? All the talk about Gab works to take members across because I heard the talk and went across. I opened the first thread, went to the last page, and the first post thereon includes: "You're a complete penis" (Satch, 2020) - So, you see, not only has Gopal's mention enticed me to go and see, but defeated his challenge in a one punch KO.
Yeah, I know. It's ridiculously easy to prove Gopal wrong. Basically just open a random page over there and chances are high you'll find such a post. That's why I said to Gopal, do you really wanna go there? Makes me wonder what was going on in Gopal's head when he posted that challenge to a quote war.
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Post by Reefs on Feb 22, 2020 0:24:20 GMT -5
All the talk about Gab works to take members across because I heard the talk and went across. I opened the first thread, went to the last page, and the first post thereon includes: "You're a complete penis" (Satch, 2020) - So, you see, not only has Gopal's mention enticed me to go and see, but defeated his challenge in a one punch KO.
since I'm the one who got called a penis... I didn't take Satch's comment to be either abusive or attacking, I think he tries to push peoples' buttons You might be right though. Because a source familiar with the matter has told me that Satchitananda is the only real guru over there.
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