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Post by laughter on Aug 30, 2016 13:42:36 GMT -5
It's that d@mned evil frog I tell you he's like mental glue! Someone should round up a posse and do something about him!  Maybe that's part of it, who knows. I'd prefer to not waste my energy on getting involved with who has a beef with who, but without having that context, some of these posts seem pretty nonsensical. Satchitananda was rolling his eyes at the "merry go round" of the lame peeps here who are not enough into spiritual bodybuilding or into tradition or into searching for spirituality externally in authority figures of bygone days. And in the next post calling out the "high horse" of your post - which, even when re-reading that post of yours, I'm having a lot of difficulty locating. And now "they" are telling me things and Enigma's post needs to be "made alright". WTF is going on here? To answer that, I'd invite you to read the beginning of "If I am the world". Satchi' states what his primary interest on the forum is within, as I recall, the first few dozen pages. What he's writing here is entirely consistent with that. You can't do this with a search because the account he used last year was deleted. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 30, 2016 13:48:53 GMT -5
They? Who they?  Anyway, I figured I'm going to be taxonomised into some club sooner or later! But yeah, admittedly we don't really have any reliable data on the rate of popping that's happening now or earlier. What is pretty obvious is that the success rate of all of the teachings has always been extremely low, and continues to be so today - that's why I said "comparatively speaking". I suspect it's better today, and several contemporary teachers seem to think so, but who knows. It's not really important anyway, just another distraction. I said everything that seemed relevant to me, and don't like wasting my time talking what I think is nonsense or vacuous mental pinball. Make it alright? Make what alright exactly? I didn't even realise there was a problem. Except maybe oneupmanship. Are we talking about one-upmanship or clarity? I know what I'm talking about. One has to be careful about saying people were slow to wake up in the old days. There was a golden age in India many many years ago when the Vedic knowledge was a part of the culture. And what about Buddha. He had many followers many of whom it is said achieved enlightenment. What we have today is an instantaneous global communications network and if your life is focussed on internet chat forums about non duality and you watch a lot of YouTube satsang videos you may form the impression that there's a lot of waking up going on. But is that true? But you seem to be aware of mindfulness practices and such like. Just stick with those and be careful what you believe. Sure, questioning the popcorn meme is quite worthwhile. Likely the patterns involved are more complicated, and as you infer, that they go in cycles that are driven in part by unpredictable events like the appearance of Buddha or the advent of the internet. But there are patterns that can be noted, and that the traditional teachings often result in life-long seekers who die with a fleeting sense of non-fullfillment is undeniable. |
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Post by billfromtexas on Aug 30, 2016 13:50:16 GMT -5
"How, by what means, can the damage being un-done, that is already done by the hard-core capitalistic global economical system and their major share-holders??? I have some ideas. But do the ones who got their way like that for centuries, and are now known as DESTROYERS of actual free-markets, have also some ideas how to solve the problems they caused?"
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Post by billfromtexas on Aug 30, 2016 14:14:31 GMT -5
"As economical history shows, it's the middle-class who mostly invents certain things, comes up with ideas, products and services but has not enough money to make them into a big enough buisness that can produce and sell these products and services on a broader skale, therfore a stock-market system has been invented to lend money from the people in the society to finance these middle-class companies.
The stock-market system got high-jacked almost completly by the old and big money upper-class members, who stepped in with lots of cash, making their money with lending money to the middle-class inventors. And they do nothing else. They are money-lender only. Because they don't have to. Money makes money and more money. And like the old saying goes: "The devil allways craps on the same spot."
Working-class and lower-middle-class people had a hard time to even get that some money saved to make an investment. But sometimes they did and they mostely invested conservative, like investing in save and long-term (national) stocks and bonds. Nowerdays there almost isn't any save way to invest like that anymore for the middle-class and lower middle-class people. THAT needs to be changed instantly, all over the world. Now."
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Post by billfromtexas on Aug 30, 2016 14:21:09 GMT -5
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Post by billfromtexas on Aug 30, 2016 14:42:58 GMT -5
You might think anja is a bit off the wall but her analysis of Enigma's words is spot on and shows a real insight. That final paragraph is typical of the "contemporary spirituality" we find in the marketplace. The words are meaningless and empty as she says. It's a kind of a spiritual cocaine. It seems to mean something without really knowing why and it might be uplifting for a few seconds without knowing why. You see visa, you reacted against anja by saying they weren't empty words. Well tell me why they are not. Tell me what it means to get presence and do a test. You're going to be protected if you are present. How is that going to work visa? Tell me. Peeps here talk about non duality but don't bother reading up on traditional Advaita Vedanta. They read a few words of Nisargadatta Maharaj or Ramana Maharshi or more likely paraphrase something that was paraphrased from a paraphrased quote on a forum. What a merry go round this is.I'm surprised you didn't understand Enigma's pointer, especially since "presence" is such a common term in contemporary nonduality. Did you read the whole post, not just the last paragraph? If so and it still seems empty, maybe you should spend a couple more years in a nonduality university earning a higher scholarly rank and a membership to a cooler vip-club.  But seriously, presence refers to ATA-MT or ATA+T (or mindfulness) - for me in practice it's ATA-T as I don't tend to remain present while mental chatter is happening. It's a very practical thing and completely testable, but if you're like me, unfortunately you have to stop thinking.  There's more to the pointer than presence, and laughter explained some of it quite well. But I must say I find it pretty funny that you're asking me to explain to you why the words are not empty, as in the post you quoted I said they appear empty to the rational mind. So I don't think I'm able to help. If the pointer doesn't resonate with you, it's probably a waste of time playing more mental pinball with it. If anything seems empty to me - or spiritual cocaine - it's Anja's and your's pointer-licking. But yeah, peeps here are so uncool! I know it gives such a buzz to be learned and in the know, not to mention belonging to a cooler club. Surely that is the straightest path to waking up? But I do wonder why in the past days the traditional methods had such low success rates whereas these days people seem to be popping like kernels (comparatively speaking)? I wonder if there could be some kind of trap in pursuing more and more knowledge and always having more and more things in the spiritual to-do list or identifying strongly with a particular school... Did someone mention a merry-go-round? BTW, didn't you tell someone to get off their high horse? Come off your I'm-more-enlightened-than-you horse. You almost beat Satch with this mere mental drivel. And this modern neo-advaita satsang-circus is not something neither I nor Satch engage in. What's your problem with that? And "presense", eh? Of who/what exactly? To be alive? Yeah, got it. |
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Post by billfromtexas on Aug 30, 2016 14:48:02 GMT -5
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Post by jay17 on Aug 30, 2016 19:19:12 GMT -5
But satchitnananda, have you considered your own thoughts. - Cannot every person have their own unique interpretation of events, that may be different from yours. - Can't laughter conclude his own interpretation be deeply related to what enigma said. - Perhaps he's not making it up, perhaps that's what he actually concludes. - Why do you judge his thoughts on the matter as nonsense just because they are different to yours. - Why do you require laughter to get off his high horse. - Can't you let others be as they are, why do they need to change for you, are you adversely affected by laughters thoughts on the matter. - If you judge laughter's thoughts as nonsense, does this signify you are the one on a high horse. Anyone can say what they want. It is not obligatory to accept what I say. I am well aware of those two elements regarding interactions. But they do not deal with the considerations i listed. I am seeking to explore your behavior-attitude, not of other's responses to your input. Do you have any thoughts to share about your response to laughter, in relation to the list above? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 21:33:55 GMT -5
Anyone can say what they want. It is not obligatory to accept what I say. I am well aware of those two elements regarding interactions. But they do not deal with the considerations i listed. I am seeking to explore your behavior-attitude, not of other's responses to your input. Do you have any thoughts to share about your response to laughter, in relation to the list above? None. I can't be bothered. Hey that's twice in one week I said I can't be bothered. To read what I might think of what visa thinks that Laffy might think strikes you as constructive? It would be for you some kind of nourishment? |
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Post by wei sa on Aug 30, 2016 21:55:43 GMT -5
Come off your I'm-more-enlightened-than-you horse. You almost beat Satch with this mere mental drivel. Huh? I've never claimed to be enlightened, even to some "degree". But yeah, isn't it easy to spot how insubstantial mental pinball is when you disagree with it! If only you could apply that same discernment to your own posts. Maybe because I've spent the last 11 years in university education, I've gotten pretty good at mental drivel, and so can spot quite easily when it's done on a naively amateurish level like in your analyses. But even when it's done convincingly, it's still mental drivel, it's true! Are you kidding? If you don't engage in it, why are you constantly trying to analyse it and struggle so hard to try to prove all kinds of points relating to it? If there was anyone engaged in spiritual circus here on this board I'd say it's you. Personally I don't care about advaita or neo-advaita or any other taxonomies, I care about waking up. I think only fools get stuck in taxonomies. Have you never meditated or read a description of ATA-T? Of everything that appears in awareness, in practice all sense perceptions. If you can remain present while thinking is happening then of that too, but most people get hypnotised into a kind trance while thinking. But more importantly: have you given any thought to the riddle I posted to you? It's well worth engaging in. |
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Post by billfromtexas on Aug 31, 2016 4:37:06 GMT -5
Come off your I'm-more-enlightened-than-you horse. You almost beat Satch with this mere mental drivel. Huh? I've never claimed to be enlightened, even to some "degree". But yeah, isn't it easy to spot how insubstantial mental pinball is when you disagree with it! If only you could apply that same discernment to your own posts. Maybe because I've spent the last 11 years in university education, I've gotten pretty good at mental drivel, and so can spot quite easily when it's done on a naively amateurish level like in your analyses. But even when it's done convincingly, it's still mental drivel, it's true! Are you kidding? If you don't engage in it, why are you constantly trying to analyse it and struggle so hard to try to prove all kinds of points relating to it? If there was anyone engaged in spiritual circus here on this board I'd say it's you. Personally I don't care about advaita or neo-advaita or any other taxonomies, I care about waking up. I think only fools get stuck in taxonomies. Have you never meditated or read a description of ATA-T? Of everything that appears in awareness, in practice all sense perceptions. If you can remain present while thinking is happening then of that too, but most people get hypnotised into a kind trance while thinking.
But more importantly: have you given any thought to the riddle I posted to you? It's well worth engaging in. So...you spend the last 11 years in academia only? That really shows, dude. I'm a university drop-out. I knew at a certain time in my studies that I already knew what it is all about I was studying. And it was shown to me by a test (klausur) I had to make in micro-economy. The question was somehow like this: Please explain why a professional armee (Berufsarmee) is ökonomically more effective and efficient than other kinds of organizing a national military force. Please do it in mathematical terms only. I gave them a blank paper with a smiley-face on it and went out of the room. And yes, I did meditate for some years in a row, every day for more than three hours and then I ....well.... And yes, I already answered your riddle, that was brought up by Zendancer in another thread first. I answered it in this thread. Can you show me how I did that? What answer have I given? |
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Post by billfromtexas on Aug 31, 2016 5:04:54 GMT -5
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Post by wei sa on Aug 31, 2016 7:38:41 GMT -5
And yes, I already answered your riddle, that was brought up by Zendancer in another thread first. I answered it in this thread. Can you show me how I did that? What answer have I given? Well, at least you haven't given the right answer in any of your replies to me. If it was in one of your monologue-posts I would've missed it as I don't read them. |
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Post by billfromtexas on Aug 31, 2016 8:42:45 GMT -5
And yes, I already answered your riddle, that was brought up by Zendancer in another thread first. I answered it in this thread. Can you show me how I did that? What answer have I given? Well, at least you haven't given the right answer in any of your replies to me. If it was in one of your monologue-posts I would've missed it as I don't read them. Okay, not my problem when you seem to be not very interested in what is going on here, in this thread, and in the others, on a daily basis. You asked, I answered. If you don't read my monologs, that's fine. But I DID answer and you don't seem to know my answer. That is what I think you try to hide with your reply here. Nichts für ungut... By the way, you called me, more of less direct, here in this thread, several nasty titles lately, Visa. For an academic that is not a very good sign regarding your state of mind. I would appreciate an appology for that. Thanks in advance. |
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Post by billfromtexas on Aug 31, 2016 11:10:28 GMT -5
"How spirituality and economy are interrelated - part II:
Like I said before, the working-class, lower-midddle-class and even some middle-class members can't affort to engage in time-consuming spiritual inquery's because they have to work too hard and too long to have enough time for such "lofty" undertakings. Although there are exeptions, of course.
As long as the capitalistic economical system is in place, like it is now, that's not gonna change, that people are exploited by the upper-class and most parts of the upper-middle-class, who make their money with lending (investing) money. Inventing or producing products or services other than those that benefit their agenda, which is the opposite of wellbeing for the majority of a society, they mostly are not interested in and incapable of.
Keeping people actively away from real knowledge, which is self/Self-knowledge, is an important trump-card in the capitalistic agenda, because the majority of people are supposed to be just intelligent enough to perform a certain job and role in society and should be kept dump enough not to question the status-quo too much. Hence all those new-age neo-advaita "teachings" that discourage or outright deny thinking as a means for self/Self-knowledge.
It is done on purpose, to a certain degree, by only publishing, financing and recommending those teachers in the satsang-circus (who are still alive), who are in for the capitalistic agenda. The others, which are very few anyway, have a hard time to even make ends meet and get finally heard, read or seen by seekers, if ever."
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But seriously, presence refers to ATA-MT or ATA+T (or mindfulness) - for me in practice it's ATA-T as I don't tend to remain present while mental chatter is happening. It's a very practical thing and completely testable, but if you're like me, unfortunately you have to stop thinking. 
