Yes, I see what you are saying here. I think one of the reasons is that non-duality sometimes presents mind as 'the problem' or 'the false', which creates a lack of respect for the mind's role and it's abilities. With that belief in place, it becomes okay to say stuff that lacks common sense, or is illogical, or is flawed, the justification being that 'that's just mind stuff anyway, just a load of ideas, so it doesn't matter whether it stands up to scrutiny or not'. What some non-duality folks don't often seem to realize is that they do have and hold a set of understandings about what is mind and not mind, and what is worthy of paying attention to and what isn't, and these understandings are formed in mind!
To be clear, just because you are responding to ZD doesn't mean that I am directing this at ZD, it's a general comment.
Same here. My comments are in reference to a pattern i have seen from observing\experiencing many devotees, i am not singling any particular person out..and that not all devotees have a 'disrespectful' attitude toward one of their main abilities.
I think one of the reasons is that non-duality sometimes presents mind as 'the problem' or 'the false', which creates a lack of respect for the mind's role and it's abilities.
I see two elements to that.
1) Depending on what specific text one is reading or specific branch of Self realization\Non-Duality being adhered to, these specific paths may proclaim, "all of mind is the problem. stop using it, case closed.'
2) No specific branches or texts may say that, but the individual, due to belief\preconception bias, may perceive they do.
Case in point: It has been said to me that Buddha was Self Realized, but it is clear to me that Buddha was not anti-mind. He highly valued this element of our human beingness.
So while some perceive
all thinking is bad for you, Buddha says things like...
"Right view, right aim, right speech, right action, right living, right effort, right mindfulness, right contemplation" - Buddha
"All wrong-doing arises because of mind. If mind is transformed, can wrong-doing remain?" - Buddha
"There is nothing so disobedient as an undisciplined mind, and there is nothing so obedient as a disciplined mind." - Buddha
And if a person's path is founded(fully or partially) on the teachings of Buddha, and you present a Buddha quote that contradicts their specific 'anti-mind' perception\beliefs, they may resort to claiming it's a fake quote. They do not do any research, it just does not align with their 'anti-mind' perception\beliefs that they are confident Buddha or sages\teachers that their spiritual genealogy can be traced back to Buddha, have said.
I first noticed this bias blind spot when i was on the christian path. Last time i checked, over a decade ago, there were 33,000 different versions of christianity. Even though all versions fully agree Jesus is the savior of all mankind and the bible god is the only true god and all words in the bible are god's words...people in each denomination would argue with people from other denominations about the myriad of other points of the doctrines within the bible.
So the end result is each group within their specific denomination(unique version of christianity) were no longer worshipping\devotees of Jesus and bible god, they had unconsciously\unknowingly become worshippers\devotees of their specific version of the christian religion.
They had become worshippers\devotees of their own interpretations\thoughts of what Jesus and bible god were saying\teaching.
To me, one most notable similarity of this is the ongoing mental tennis match between Tzu and enigma regarding their understanding of a topic, each directly or indirectly asserting their own interpretation is the correct one and the other has sight issues.
"In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds
and then believe them to be true." - Buddha
With that belief in place, it becomes okay to say stuff that lacks common sense, or is illogical, or is flawed, the justification being that 'that's just mind stuff anyway, just a load of ideas, so it doesn't matter whether it stands up to scrutiny or not'.
Yep, confirmation of accuracy is not required, you just have to observe and feel - and if you see it, it must therefore be truth because you have been told you are now seeing existence as it actually is because you are no longer filtering existence through 'mind'. How many times have i heard, 'this is beyond mind.'
Or to feel it - if you experience some level of awe or uplifting sensations, this is proof\evidence you are experiencing truth....'if it feels rights, it must be right.'
What some non-duality folks don't often seem to realize is that they do have and hold a set of understandings about what is mind and not mind, and what is worthy of paying attention to and what isn't, and these understandings are formed in mind!
That is exactly what i have seen over the years.
There is an episode of Monkey, Season 1.
Monkey stands before Buddha (who is depicted as god-like(big as a mountain) after his death).
Monkey brags(as is the nature of Monkey) about how god-like awesome he himself is.
Buddha lovingly tests him to prove this.
(Don't quote me, this was over 20 years ago i saw this great show, paraphrasing as best i can from memory)
Buddha: At the end of the universe, there is a mountain with 5 pillars. Go the the end of the universe,
find those pillars and leave a sign to prove you were there, and i will acknowledge you are as powerful as the gods of heaven.
Monkey: Is that all ?! Done ! Wait here, i'll be back in a sec.
So off Monkey goes, on his trusty cloud, to the end of the universe. He finds the 5 pillars, then graffiti tags it with a declaration of how awesome he is, then triumphantly flies back to where Buddha was on earth waiting for him.
Monkey: Hey, Buddha, man that was too easy. Now, acknowledge that i am as awesome and god-like as you or any of the other gods in heaven.
Buddha: Ohh, i did not think you could do this, quite remarkable, did you really reach the end of the universe and see the 5 pillars i described.
Monkey: Yep, And to prove it, i tagged one of the pillars, i wrote "such and such"
Buddha: You mean this pillar and this text...
And Buddha holds up his huge hand, and on one of his fingers is the text that Monkey just wrote on the pillar at the end of the universe.
Monkey is in shock at the realization he never went to the end of the universe but only to the end of Buddha's out stretched hand.
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"In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds
and then believe them to be true." - Buddha
"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make our world." - Buddha