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Post by silver on Jan 7, 2014 18:10:39 GMT -5
Yes, subjectively, but not necessarily objectively. It matters which because in the former it is you that would need to change instead of the universe. obviously. and that's what's going on already anyhow. universe is a bad place and if i want something from it then i have to play by its shítty rules. the point is that the universe is a bad place. if it werent a bad place then i would just get what i want for free.There's a difference between creative intelligence, as I'm talking about it, and a smart person. There's no smart universe who is discerning your wishes; no intellectual process going on at the universal level. Some call this a creative principle. I just call it Intelligence. It can be seen most directly in the integrated movement of nature, but it is not responding to personal preferences. that's just bad thinking, there is no way to call it intelligent without some sort of deliberate decision making involved. instead the universe is just a blind mechanic process. some touchy-feely idiots look at the complexity in the universe and make some stupid poetry about it, to call the universe intelligent is anthropormorphization (or whatever its called), just a stupid brainfart where emotion overrides logicThe universe isn't trying to make you happy or unhappy. You're treating it like a big Daddy. no, you're the one who is treating it like a big daddy. you're saying that it is intelligent. i'm saying if that's true then it's an evil intelligence. from day one i've been saying that the universe is stupid, it's just rocks, quarks and atoms. . the universe is a cold stupid place, no intelligence, no hope, nothing. and this is the good version. the bad version is if the universe really is intelligent and creative, because then it is necessarily an evil intelligence, an if that's true (the uiverse being intelligent) then we're fúcked big time,... so actually i'm the optimist here, not you.It means the larger movements of life are supported; integrated in sometimes very complex ways, which look to me like circles within circles. This is why we're learning to be very careful about what we change, because it influences everything else in some way. This is how nature functions as a whole in spite of the appearance of separate parts. nonsense. the only reason we're not yet wiped out by some stupid asteroid is because we have bene lucky so far. eventually mankind will cease to exist. there was life on mars, now there is none, all that's left there are stupid rocks and dust.Diversity of expression is what is happening. All manner of life, even in the most adverse of conditions. Nature is virtually unstoppable in this respect. You don't need new age beliefs to see that this is happening. what life? you mean stuff like bacteria? give me a break. just because it moves? it has nothing to do with me, i wouldn't even call it life, it measn nothing to me if you call it life or whatever. I am life. Bascteria are nowhere near the same category as I am. i don'T give a shít about bacteria. i don't care about nature, all the stupid animals and plants, bottom line is that the bilbe is right, all this so-called life is here for us and us alone, we can do with it whatever we want, we just have to make sure that we don#'t destroy the planet because unfortunately it's the only one we have, but i don't give a dámn if some scpecies is extinct or not,... seriously... who cares? be honest. i don't care one bit about them. recently i'm worried that all the bees are dying, but not becasue i'm so compasisonate, i'm worried because if they die it could mess up the whole ecology and we lose our food source.Hi. Are you like this 24/7, or just here and/or on other forums? Just curious. If it's fairly easy to see, even for laypersons, that bees rely on flowers, and other creatures (besides ourselves) rely -- all this inter-relatedness and/or inter-dependence, and who knows where - if anywhere - to break the link without massive consequences somewhere down the line, then won't it pay to be completely and utterly mindful of our actions - and before that - our very thoughts? Editing to add: And sure, it definitely is a big ol' crap shoot, and that's part of this wild, tumultuous planet of ours plus the solar system, etc., which is all that Enigma is doing, is affixing a rather innocent label to it by calling it some sort of 'intelligence' - that's easy enough to see, I would think, anyway. |
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jan 7, 2014 18:35:14 GMT -5
Hi. Are you like this 24/7, or just here and/or on other forums? Just curious. When among people I obviously behave, otherwise they would punch me in the face. So in public i can't be myself, I have to wear a mask. Thats why i hate people, i hate being in public. And i hate lies, i don't lie to myself. Here i am anonymous and i dont lie, here i can write what i think. I'm not on other forums, but if i were then i would behave on most forums, because otherwise they would ban me very quick, i couldnt say the truth.If it's fairly easy to see, even for laypersons, that bees rely on flowers, and other creatures (besides ourselves) rely -- all this inter-relatedness and/or inter-dependence, and who knows where - if anywhere - to break the link without massive consequences somewhere down the line, then won't it pay to be completely and utterly mindful of our actions - and before that - our very thoughts? Actually interdependence and an apparently fine-tuned ecosystem where one detail could destabilize an entire system is a sign of absence of intelligence, or at least very bad intelligence. The reason is very simple. Just take your computer as an example. There are a lot of things going on there, lots of details. A lot of things could go wrong. An intelligent builder will make the system so that if one thing goes wrong, it doesnt affect the rest, that would be good programming. Bad programming is when you have some small bug and suddenly the entire system crashes. The more complexity you have the more stuff can go wrong, that's why if you're intelligent you will always look for ways to isolate systems as much as you can, build as many discrete and independent parts as you can. So next time someone comes up with the argument you cited then you can be cetain that he hasn't contemplated the issue for more than 2 seconds.
Another thing is how does complexity arise. The mathematical fact is that the more complex the rules are that you start with, the less complexity you can possibly generate. But the less rules you start with the more complexity a system can generate. So possible complexity is inversely proportional to the complexity of the rules of the system. Rules of a system require intelligence, the less rules you have the less intelligence you need.Editing to add: And sure, it definitely is a big ol' crap shoot, and that's part of this wild, tumultuous planet of ours plus the solar system, etc., which is all that Enigma is doing, is affixing a rather innocent label to it by calling it some sort of 'intelligence' - that's easy enough to see, I would think, anyway. He is plain and simple wrong and I'm right. My thinking is rock solid. I don't argue unless i'm right. |
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Post by runstill on Jan 7, 2014 18:38:09 GMT -5
Q's been like this ever since he realized he will never get enlightenment....  |
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Post by silver on Jan 7, 2014 18:47:02 GMT -5
Hi. Are you like this 24/7, or just here and/or on other forums? Just curious. When among people I obviously behave, otherwise they would punch me in the face. So in public i can't be myself, I have to wear a mask. Thats why i hate people, i hate being in public. And i hate lies, i don't lie to myself. Here i am anonymous and i dont lie, here i can write what i think. I'm not on other forums, but if i were then i would behave on most forums, because otherwise they would ban me very quick, i couldnt say the truth.If it's fairly easy to see, even for laypersons, that bees rely on flowers, and other creatures (besides ourselves) rely -- all this inter-relatedness and/or inter-dependence, and who knows where - if anywhere - to break the link without massive consequences somewhere down the line, then won't it pay to be completely and utterly mindful of our actions - and before that - our very thoughts? Actually interdependence and an apparently fine-tuned ecosystem where one detail could destabilize an entire system is a sign of absence of intelligence, or at least very bad intelligence. The reason is very simple. Just take your computer as an example. There are a lot of things going on there, lots of details. A lot of things could go wrong. An intelligent builder will make the system so that if one thing goes wrong, it doesnt affect the rest, that would be good programming. Bad programming is when you have some small bug and suddenly the entire system crashes. The more complexity you have the more stuff can go wrong, that's why if you're intelligent you will always look for ways to isolate systems as much as you can, build as many discrete and independent parts as you can. So next time someone comes up with the argument you cited then you can be cetain that he hasn't contemplated the issue for more than 2 seconds.
Another thing is how does complexity arise. The mathematical fact is that the more complex the rules are that you start with, the less complexity you can possibly generate. But the less rules you start with the more complexity a system can generate. So possible complexity is inversely proportional to the complexity of the rules of the system. Rules of a system require intelligence, the less rules you have the less intelligence you need.Editing to add: And sure, it definitely is a big ol' crap shoot, and that's part of this wild, tumultuous planet of ours plus the solar system, etc., which is all that Enigma is doing, is affixing a rather innocent label to it by calling it some sort of 'intelligence' - that's easy enough to see, I would think, anyway. He is plain and simple wrong and I'm right. My thinking is rock solid. I don't argue unless i'm right.Well -- the 'fact' of your intelligence or lack thereof, is a nonissue to me - it's neither here nor there. At first glance, it 'sounds' reasonable for you to say that "...where one detail could destabilize an entire system is a sign of absence of intelligence, or at least very bad intelligence" there's nothing really to argue with - except the assumption that - in relation to unknown factors about just how big our galaxy - universe - etc. is, could very well hold the 'explanation' as to how or why our world works and functions as well as it seems to. Everybody's thinking is 'rock solid' - but there always seems to be unknown, mysterious and even magical factors that may or may not turn up later to pull it all together.  |
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Post by laughter on Jan 7, 2014 19:19:45 GMT -5
The universe isn't in the fast food service biznis. It's not interested in giving you what you desire. It's also not interested in harming you. It's not malevolent, from my pov it obviously is, and there is no other pov except mine, because I am the only one i experience, so if there is a universe and it too rarely does does what i want it to, even though it easily could, then obviously the universe is malevolentit just doesn't know you exist as a separate person with personal desires, then it's a stupid universe, no intelligence in it at all. i obviously have desires, i experience it everyday, it's the most obvious thing to me, how can the universe not know that i exist and that i have desires, and you don't. bs. but even if i didn't exist, my desires obviously still exist. the uiverse it infinate right? so how hard can it be to fulfill my desires?Don't expect the integrated movement of life to respond to your personal illusions about what you want and need. personal illusions about what i want and need? the fúck does that even mean? a baby doesn't "need" to have a new toy, and arguably its desire is based on some kind of illusion, but i still buy it one, just cos i want it to be happy. Life will support life for the sake of life as a whole, blah blah and you know itand in the interest of diversity of expression. new age crap. diversity and expressionn mah áss.In that sense, the universe is benevolent, but it is not moving in a personal way just because you experience things in a personal way. stop readng idiot books. you have never looked out of someone elses eyes. your entire life you have only looked through phil's eyes, how the fúck can you justify talking about impersonal?  |
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Post by laughter on Jan 7, 2014 19:20:19 GMT -5
If we abstract a set of rules and apply them to the individual the Universe is conspiring, in each instant, to both annihilate and nurture the individual, and eventually, the former movement prevails. Even without the rules, just by observing and abstracting one can come to this conclusion. For instance, with every breath we extract oxygen that's needed to power our cells. It's also that very process that runs our biological aging clock. Yes, that's how it will look, and it can be informative to notice what does and doesn't drive Life. Life is a singular movement, singular because it is an expression of wholeness in form, and movement because experience itself is movement only. The interest, or vector, for this movement seems to be a dynamic diversity. The more closely one looks into any aspect of the universe, the more amazing and beautiful it appears, and this awe and wonder is foundational to creation itself. What it does not do is play into the personal delusions and fears of it's creations, and so nature can seem cruel and malevolent from that personal perspective, and yet everything gets what it needs to play a part in this dynamic expression. One gets what one needs according to it's role in these larger fields of expression, but not necessarily what one wants as a separate, volitional person. Hencely, 'the play is the thing'. Everything moves, everything changes, nothing can remain static. Birth, aging and death are the movement of life lifeing, and there is no interest in stability and longevity. The person will always be denied these desires. Life does not fear the loss of life any more than God trembles in fear of his own demise. nice |
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Post by laughter on Jan 7, 2014 19:23:33 GMT -5
... omg ... vladiQ ... I'm seriously going to injure myself (break a blood vessle er sumthin') if I keep reading your stuff man ...
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Post by Beingist on Jan 7, 2014 19:25:48 GMT -5
... omg ... vladiQ ... I'm seriously going to injure myself (break a blood vessle er sumthin') if I keep reading your stuff man ... I'm sure that would make vladiQ perfectly content. |
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jan 7, 2014 19:56:47 GMT -5
It is sad that even here, on a spiritual forum, people are still ridiculing me. And then the next second they say that the world is benevolent and good and whatnot. If even here people are still hurting me, how can they have the chuzpe to claim that?
No doubt they will find a way to laugh even about this post. Because i'm Q and I'm always pulling a Kaufman and I'm never serious and whatnot.
Believe it or not. I'm just a normal human being. I have feelings and problems like everyone else. It's not very hard to respect this, but you need a minimum of decency. I'm sorry that sometimes I hurt other people, I can't help it and I already pay the price for it every day, but that doesn't mean that you should hurt me.
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Post by silver on Jan 7, 2014 20:01:16 GMT -5
It is sad that even here, on a spiritual forum, people are still ridiculing me. And then the next second they say that the world is benevolent and good and whatnot. If even here people are still hurting me, how can they have the chuzpe to claim that? No doubt they will find a way to laugh even about this post. Because i'm Q and I'm always pulling a Kaufman and I'm never serious and whatnot. Believe it or not. I'm just a normal human being. I have feelings and problems like everyone else. It's not very hard to respect this, but you need a minimum of decency. I'm sorry that sometimes I hurt other people, I can't help it and I already pay the price for it every day, but that doesn't mean that you should hurt me. It's all in the mix -- you're all in the mix -- we're all in the mix. I am not sure if you were referring to Beingist's quip just now, or what/whom. You've been around a long time, and I'm starting to be a long-timer here, too, and neither one of us has remained unscathed, and yet we stick around...I mean really stick around - like flypaper.......Now, why is that? |
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Post by laughter on Jan 7, 2014 20:33:41 GMT -5
It is sad that even here, on a spiritual forum, people are still ridiculing me. And then the next second they say that the world is benevolent and good and whatnot. If even here people are still hurting me, how can they have the chuzpe to claim that? No doubt they will find a way to laugh even about this post. Because i'm Q and I'm always pulling a Kaufman and I'm never serious and whatnot. Believe it or not. I'm just a normal human being. I have feelings and problems like everyone else. It's not very hard to respect this, but you need a minimum of decency. I'm sorry that sometimes I hurt other people, I can't help it and I already pay the price for it every day, but that doesn't mean that you should hurt me. I love you man. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jan 7, 2014 20:56:31 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. The universe is indifferent, and it is indifferent to beliefs about separate persons and beliefs about oneness, because it's axshooly indifferent That's what I'm saying, and yet it functions as one because it IS one. That is what you see through the lens of your beliefs, a distorted perspective.. the universe is indifferent to 'one' or many, it's indifferent to your ramblings about 'one'.. let all that imagined belief go, set yourself free from the bondage of believing in 'one', of trying to convert others.. you are stuck, let it go.. It just 'is'.. "one" is your belief about what you think 'it' is.. Be well.. |
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jan 8, 2014 4:33:57 GMT -5
Then stop insulting and ridiculing me. |
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jan 9, 2014 15:10:44 GMT -5
Q's been like this ever since he realized he will never get enlightenment.... That's correct. But I've been like that also before I started seeking enlightenment. There was a period of about 6-7 years where I really tried to be more "positive" and "nondual/spiritual", but I was just being a fake all the time and deep down I knew it. And when you're faking all the time, not just in public, but also when you're alone... nobody can do that, it just destroys you. So to all of you fakers out there: I'm #1 expert on faking, I know every single trick. |
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Post by silence on Jan 9, 2014 22:54:48 GMT -5
Q's been like this ever since he realized he will never get enlightenment.... That's correct. But I've been like that also before I started seeking enlightenment. There was a period of about 6-7 years where I really tried to be more "positive" and "nondual/spiritual", but I was just being a fake all the time and deep down I knew it. And when you're faking all the time, not just in public, but also when you're alone... nobody can do that, it just destroys you. So to all of you fakers out there: I'm #1 expert on faking, I know every single trick. Is there anything you're not the #1 expert in? |
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