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Post by Reefs on Dec 5, 2013 11:50:10 GMT -5
The point I'd say is that nobody can do 'not knowing'. The elaborate games of pretend will ensue for however long it takes until one sees through thought, knowledge as a whole. Until it's crystal clear that the domain of mind is entirely irrelevant to discovering anything authentic about themselves or life in general. You have an entirely different definition of Mind, and with all due respect, a lack of awareness regarding the actual functioning and processes of 'knowing'. Knowing is a position that is moved into, and one has the capacity to move into it or not in any given moment, if they are alert and aware. You think not knowing is about forgeting information and not being able to access it in the future....but you are dwelling in the past and future, and not considering the only thing that matters, which is THIS MOMENT. In this moment, be alert, without knowing.....and let the future take care of itself regarding whatever information that may appear. Future? What future?
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Post by Reefs on Dec 5, 2013 11:53:32 GMT -5
I feel like writing this post is just taking me further away from truth,. but I'll go along with that for now. Precisely.
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Post by Reefs on Dec 5, 2013 11:54:17 GMT -5
You have an entirely different definition of Mind, and with all due respect, a lack of awareness regarding the actual functioning and processes of 'knowing'. Knowing is a position that is moved into, and one has the capacity to move into it or not in any given moment, if they are alert and aware. You think not knowing is about forgeting information and not being able to access it in the future....but you are dwelling in the past and future, and not considering the only thing that matters, which is THIS MOMENT. In this moment, be alert, without knowing.....and let the future take care of itself regarding whatever information that may appear. Moving in and out of 'knowing' is basically what I mean by the games of pretend. Yes. Not different from the samadhi craze.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 11:55:55 GMT -5
For existence to know it exists, it would have to separate itself so that it could know itself... Another no-brainer.... Hypotheticals! Bring them on! I would but it's being classified as spam by the Hypotheticals these days...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 12:05:02 GMT -5
Your intuition is correct...'not knowing' doesn't require knowledge or answers lol Simply be alert to all the gross and subtle ways that you are knowing your experience, become conscious of these, and just be still instead. Be alert to the subtleties of familiarity, and stop. And regarding the grosser kinds of knowing like ideas and existential truths, surrender them into not knowing, then be alert to, or conscious of simple familiarity, and stop moving unconsciously into it. Your knowledge compounds upon itself...first, when you were a small child, you looked at an undefined unfamiliar world, then you become familiar with stuff, then you name and define it, then you categorize it, soon you have become so familiar with your environment that your have become familiar with, then named, defined, and categorized nearly everything...you get to the point where everything you see is something that you unconsciously recognize as something you are familiar with that is categorized....eventually, this 'catalogue' of defined and categorized familiarities compounds still further into ideas and patterns of ideas that become truths.... Go back to the beginning, be alert and observe how simple familiarity is there just at the beginning of everything you experience...be alert because simple familiarity is a much more subtle form of knowing than defining and categorizing and thinking 'about' stuff that appears to you....but make no mistake, every thought, every knowing, begins with simple familiarity. Be alert to this subtle kind of knowing, because without alertness, you will remain unconscious of it. But if you are conscious of something, you can simply stop doing it.Enjoyed the whole post Steve, but the bolded bit really jumped out. (I often find your posts to contain these types of understated gems)....an integral point to the whole 'ideas and behaviors cannot just be dropped or released because it has been decided so' argument. Indeed, It is 'being conscious of' that renders it all akin to putty in hand.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 12:19:07 GMT -5
Moving in and out of 'knowing' is basically what I mean by the games of pretend. Yes. Not different from the samadhi craze. You seem to do a lot of defining and categorizing my friend.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 16:23:05 GMT -5
freejoy is aware that he exists as what?! Complete unit. Are you sure it is the awareness of yourself as a Complete unit and not merely the awareness of the ' idea' of yourself as a Complete unit? You do see the difference right?!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 16:34:04 GMT -5
You may know that freejoy exists, but does existence know that it exists?! Existence knows it exsit through aware things, like humans. Existence can't be an object to itself through the awareness of things like humans. Existence as a knower of Existence as the known is duality at it's finest...
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Post by silence on Dec 5, 2013 22:24:29 GMT -5
The means IS the end, and the end IS the means. Sew,... Silence "The point I'd say is that nobody can do 'not knowing'. The elaborate games of pretend will ensue for however long it takes until one sees through thought, knowledge as a whole. Until it's crystal clear that the domain of mind is entirely irrelevant to discovering anything authentic about themselves or life in general." Steve "If you can be alert, and not know, you are as 'Buddha' as Buddha gets so to speak....you are no different than a Niz or a Ramana in your inner nature, and its not difficult, it only requires a little alertness, and not knowing." Thanks to you guys and Reefs for your comments. Hmm,.... This "not knowing" bizness,.. how would this present itself in the doing of everyday type stuff? Chop wood, carry water? 5 mins ago I was nailing wire mesh onto a door frame. Mesh and nails went were they needed to be. Occasional blips of thoughts went by but they were less substantial than the dust on the floor. A few "is this not knowing?" thoughts and a bit of a sense of expectancy as well, but they too came and went. I feel like writing this post is just taking me further away from truth,. but I'll go along with that for now. There's nothing to know about not knowing. It's just a phrase someone made up. Probably steve.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 0:13:20 GMT -5
Your intuition is correct...'not knowing' doesn't require knowledge or answers lol Simply be alert to all the gross and subtle ways that you are knowing your experience, become conscious of these, and just be still instead. Be alert to the subtleties of familiarity, and stop. And regarding the grosser kinds of knowing like ideas and existential truths, surrender them into not knowing, then be alert to, or conscious of simple familiarity, and stop moving unconsciously into it. Your knowledge compounds upon itself...first, when you were a small child, you looked at an undefined unfamiliar world, then you become familiar with stuff, then you name and define it, then you categorize it, soon you have become so familiar with your environment that your have become familiar with, then named, defined, and categorized nearly everything...you get to the point where everything you see is something that you unconsciously recognize as something you are familiar with that is categorized....eventually, this 'catalogue' of defined and categorized familiarities compounds still further into ideas and patterns of ideas that become truths.... Go back to the beginning, be alert and observe how simple familiarity is there just at the beginning of everything you experience...be alert because simple familiarity is a much more subtle form of knowing than defining and categorizing and thinking 'about' stuff that appears to you....but make no mistake, every thought, every knowing, begins with simple familiarity. Be alert to this subtle kind of knowing, because without alertness, you will remain unconscious of it. But if you are conscious of something, you can simply stop doing it.Enjoyed the whole post Steve, but the bolded bit really jumped out. (I often find your posts to contain these types of understated gems)....an integral point to the whole 'ideas and behaviors cannot just be dropped or released because it has been decided so' argument. Indeed, It is 'being conscious of' that renders it all akin to putty in hand. :-) I'm pretty bully on promoting alertness, its kind of a "cure all/fix all" to some extent ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 0:21:08 GMT -5
Sew,... Silence "The point I'd say is that nobody can do 'not knowing'. The elaborate games of pretend will ensue for however long it takes until one sees through thought, knowledge as a whole. Until it's crystal clear that the domain of mind is entirely irrelevant to discovering anything authentic about themselves or life in general." Steve "If you can be alert, and not know, you are as 'Buddha' as Buddha gets so to speak....you are no different than a Niz or a Ramana in your inner nature, and its not difficult, it only requires a little alertness, and not knowing." Thanks to you guys and Reefs for your comments. Hmm,.... This "not knowing" bizness,.. how would this present itself in the doing of everyday type stuff? Chop wood, carry water? 5 mins ago I was nailing wire mesh onto a door frame. Mesh and nails went were they needed to be. Occasional blips of thoughts went by but they were less substantial than the dust on the floor. A few "is this not knowing?" thoughts and a bit of a sense of expectancy as well, but they too came and went. I feel like writing this post is just taking me further away from truth,. but I'll go along with that for now. There's nothing to know about not knowing. It's just a phrase someone made up. Probably steve. Nah....ZD can probably point you in the direction of some folks who have been saying that for a few thousand years...its common in Zen circles...Most experienced Zen practitioners will also gnosis what I mean by: "The means IS the end and the end IS the means" ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 0:24:50 GMT -5
The means IS the end, and the end IS the means. Nonsense. Haha
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Post by Reefs on Dec 6, 2013 2:44:28 GMT -5
Yes. Not different from the samadhi craze. You seem to do a lot of defining and categorizing my friend. That's because you do a lot of repackaging and changing of hats, muchacho.
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Post by Reefs on Dec 6, 2013 5:02:28 GMT -5
Your intuition is correct...'not knowing' doesn't require knowledge or answers lol Simply be alert to all the gross and subtle ways that you are knowing your experience, become conscious of these, and just be still instead. Be alert to the subtleties of familiarity, and stop. And regarding the grosser kinds of knowing like ideas and existential truths, surrender them into not knowing, then be alert to, or conscious of simple familiarity, and stop moving unconsciously into it. Your knowledge compounds upon itself...first, when you were a small child, you looked at an undefined unfamiliar world, then you become familiar with stuff, then you name and define it, then you categorize it, soon you have become so familiar with your environment that your have become familiar with, then named, defined, and categorized nearly everything...you get to the point where everything you see is something that you unconsciously recognize as something you are familiar with that is categorized....eventually, this 'catalogue' of defined and categorized familiarities compounds still further into ideas and patterns of ideas that become truths.... Go back to the beginning, be alert and observe how simple familiarity is there just at the beginning of everything you experience...be alert because simple familiarity is a much more subtle form of knowing than defining and categorizing and thinking 'about' stuff that appears to you....but make no mistake, every thought, every knowing, begins with simple familiarity. Be alert to this subtle kind of knowing, because without alertness, you will remain unconscious of it. But if you are conscious of something, you can simply stop doing it.Enjoyed the whole post Steve, but the bolded bit really jumped out. (I often find your posts to contain these types of understated gems)....an integral point to the whole 'ideas and behaviors cannot just be dropped or released because it has been decided so' argument. Indeed, It is 'being conscious of' that renders it all akin to putty in hand. Wasn't the goal to not become conscious but to irretrievably get lost in mind?
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Post by Reefs on Dec 6, 2013 5:03:21 GMT -5
Enjoyed the whole post Steve, but the bolded bit really jumped out. (I often find your posts to contain these types of understated gems)....an integral point to the whole 'ideas and behaviors cannot just be dropped or released because it has been decided so' argument. Indeed, It is 'being conscious of' that renders it all akin to putty in hand. :-) I'm pretty bully on promoting alertness, its kind of a "cure all/fix all" to some extent ;-) This can be attached to.
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