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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 8, 2013 14:54:23 GMT -5
No, it is objectively imperfect. Is an oval not a circle only if you think about it? Imperfect is an imagined quality which can be applied if you want to. Existence -- all the things that are there -- is a far cry from a mathematically abstract object like a circle. Technically, an oval is no more an imperfect circle than a box of wheatabix. A circle has a precise definition. Anything other than meeting that is not a circle, it's something other than a circle. It is a circle or it is not. I still am not sure what "all the things that are there" means. But in any case, imagining that "all the things that are there" can be better and then calling "all the things that are actually there" imperfect is just what it is -- a conclusion based on imagination and thinking. Suppose you need/want a circle and all you get is an oval. All other things remaining the same, a world where you get a circle instead of an oval is better than the one where you get an oval.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 8, 2013 15:16:28 GMT -5
Is pain better than no pain? Pain doesn't feel good. In the overall scheme of things I really can't tell if it is better or worst. Once a person gets there they look back and see the pain was needed for the trip? But then again maybe the trip would have been shorter? But then again maybe your pain help others now ten are with you at the end of the trip? It's hard to tell! It's not hard to tell at all. Suppose in a parralel universe everything is exactly the same, except that you never feel pain there. Which universe is better? The one you're living in now or the parallel universe?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 8, 2013 15:30:01 GMT -5
It's not hard to tell at all. Suppose in a parralel universe everything is exactly the same, except that you never feel pain there. Which universe is better? The one you're living in now or the parallel universe? There are people who have disabilities that can't feel pain. Without pain one might not be careful and go around hurting themselves. You could be on fire and not know about it. I said that in the parralel universe all things are exactly the same, except that you don't feel pain.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 15:38:56 GMT -5
There are people who have disabilities that can't feel pain. Without pain one might not be careful and go around hurting themselves. You could be on fire and not know about it. I said that in the parralel universe all things are exactly the same, except that you don't feel pain.
So you would burn to death painlessly. I thought fj's point is that pain serves a function. For example, as an aid for staying alive.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 8, 2013 16:05:22 GMT -5
I said that in the parralel universe all things are exactly the same, except that you don't feel pain.
So you would burn to death painlessly. I thought fj's point is that pain serves a function. For example, as an aid for staying alive. Doesn't matter. In my thought experiment the parallel universe is exactly the same except no pain.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 17:16:11 GMT -5
Is pain better than no pain? Pain doesn't feel good. In the overall scheme of things I really can't tell if it is better or worst. Once a person gets there they look back and see the pain was needed for the trip? But then again maybe the trip would have been shorter? But then again maybe your pain help others now ten are with you at the end of the trip? It's hard to tell! Pain is frequently unavoidable....but one does not have to suffer over it....suffering is avoidable, pain is frequently not.
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Post by lolly on Nov 8, 2013 21:43:05 GMT -5
Behaviours related to suffering are mentally reactive and pertain to 'me'. The world contains a continual chain of events. Some create highly pleasurable experience and others are unpleasant. I wouldn't say that the world is perfect. When I speak of pain in the world, anyone who ever lived experiences it and finds it to be very unpleasant, and all fauna experience sadness anger happiness and all these emotions. The emotions are not fixtures (we merely have fixed names for them), they are continually changing experiences that include physical sensations. Today's anger will transform into tomorrow's happiness just as todays sunshine follows yesterday's rain. OK... to say the world is perfect is only asserting a quality on the observable, and likewise, to describe an evil mistake refers to a drawn conclusion about the world, and is not the observed in itself. One example it to take a neutral thing, such as the changing sensation in one of our hands, and what is it? Perfect, imperfect, evil mistake? These secondary descriptors are judgements about the observation. The observation occurs, and people make up a story like it's perfect or whatever. I don't disagree... there is good enough reason to be pissed at the world. People can be so monsterous. I never cease to be astounded at that, and I'm no angel, and I contribute to the misery in some small way too. As far as God is concerned, I'll leave that to the religious people to quaff on ... Mr Perfect himself! LOL. It's not like the Big Daddy in the Sky is judging people and all that nonsense... it's more like people judging eachother, and judging the universe as perfect or imperfect or whatever. You really have a knack for using many many words without saying anything at all. Didn't you say that you would respond to me only in short sentences? Yep, I lied.
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Post by lolly on Nov 8, 2013 21:53:09 GMT -5
Weird thing is... each paragraph I wrote addresses something. You cats then spent several posts on pain and several more on perfect.
In my other drivel I wrote one paragraph on anger and here there is still nattering about being pissed at the world.
It appears to me that I drivel less in my two responses that the amount of drivel it the multitude of pages of short posts, so if you want short posts, you pages of them. hehehe.
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Post by acewall on Nov 8, 2013 22:28:13 GMT -5
Pain doesn't feel good. In the overall scheme of things I really can't tell if it is better or worst. Once a person gets there they look back and see the pain was needed for the trip? But then again maybe the trip would have been shorter? But then again maybe your pain help others now ten are with you at the end of the trip? It's hard to tell! Pain is frequently unavoidable....but one does not have to suffer over it....suffering is avoidable, pain is frequently not. suffering is staying in the evaluating department of ones mind, that which devides; One into Two,the department of good and bad. I see Returning back into samadhe(One, before the split) minimises sufferings elongation period.
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Post by acewall on Nov 8, 2013 22:35:32 GMT -5
yesterday at 12:21am Joe Bauers said:
Fúck this shít. I'm not in the mood for these stupid games.
Fúck has so many meanings...I presume you dont mean bumfúck which gets you all covered in anothers shít?
Understanding the other requires us to take-in their-concepts...mull it over, before we can respond intelligently. What is it in you that, 'Fúcks the shít?' is I your ego?
What? Joe has no ego?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 9, 2013 5:29:29 GMT -5
Weird thing is... each paragraph I wrote addresses something. You cats then spent several posts on pain and several more on perfect. In my other drivel I wrote one paragraph on anger and here there is still nattering about being pissed at the world. It appears to me that I drivel less in my two responses that the amount of drivel it the multitude of pages of short posts, so if you want short posts, you pages of them. hehehe. Well, tbh it's really hard for me to read textwalls in the first place. Halfway through I already forget what the beginning was about. With your posts it's even worse because your language is so neutral, like from a politician, I fall asleep. So at least put some cliffs at the end for people like me.
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Post by lolly on Nov 9, 2013 6:04:33 GMT -5
Weird thing is... each paragraph I wrote addresses something. You cats then spent several posts on pain and several more on perfect. In my other drivel I wrote one paragraph on anger and here there is still nattering about being pissed at the world. It appears to me that I drivel less in my two responses that the amount of drivel it the multitude of pages of short posts, so if you want short posts, you pages of them. hehehe. Well, tbh it's really hard for me to read textwalls in the first place. Halfway through I already forget what the beginning was about. With your posts it's even worse because your language is so neutral, like from a politician, I fall asleep. So at least put some cliffs at the end for people like me. I guess I don't really have strong opinions on spiritual issues. It's basically philosophy dressed in robes. It's just that the world is the way it is, and honestly, I do my little bit to better it, so can't call it perfect. It's a mire of sicko predators and the mess they make of others, and a system that is unjust and the social problems it creates... and just when you think you've see the worst, it gets worse. That's the problem with working on problems... it's just a deep pool of muck. I'm political because I work on the system, and I'm neutral because I work in the muck...
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 9, 2013 6:22:04 GMT -5
Well, tbh it's really hard for me to read textwalls in the first place. Halfway through I already forget what the beginning was about. With your posts it's even worse because your language is so neutral, like from a politician, I fall asleep. So at least put some cliffs at the end for people like me. I guess I don't really have strong opinions on spiritual issues. It's basically philosophy dressed in robes. It's just that the world is the way it is, and honestly, I do my little bit to better it, so can't call it perfect. It's a mire of sicko predators and the mess they make of others, and a system that is unjust and the social problems it creates... and just when you think you've see the worst, it gets worse. That's the problem with working on problems... it's just a deep pool of muck. I'm political because I work on the system, and I'm neutral because I work in the muck... Seems to me that indeed you have nothing to say and you make this thread and make long posts that say nothing just so that you can get some interaction and find some people who agree with you, even if the agreement is over nothing.
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Post by lolly on Nov 9, 2013 7:07:34 GMT -5
I guess I don't really have strong opinions on spiritual issues. It's basically philosophy dressed in robes. It's just that the world is the way it is, and honestly, I do my little bit to better it, so can't call it perfect. It's a mire of sicko predators and the mess they make of others, and a system that is unjust and the social problems it creates... and just when you think you've see the worst, it gets worse. That's the problem with working on problems... it's just a deep pool of muck. I'm political because I work on the system, and I'm neutral because I work in the muck... Seems to me that indeed you have nothing to say and you make this thread and make long posts that say nothing just so that you can get some interaction and find some people who agree with you, even if the agreement is over nothing. It's not even that. I just say what I think and then I respond to anyone who quotes me. I already know some people will agree sometimes about somethings, and sometimes wont agree.
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Post by silver on Nov 9, 2013 11:14:44 GMT -5
I guess I don't really have strong opinions on spiritual issues. It's basically philosophy dressed in robes. It's just that the world is the way it is, and honestly, I do my little bit to better it, so can't call it perfect. It's a mire of sicko predators and the mess they make of others, and a system that is unjust and the social problems it creates... and just when you think you've see the worst, it gets worse. That's the problem with working on problems... it's just a deep pool of muck. I'm political because I work on the system, and I'm neutral because I work in the muck... Seems to me that indeed you have nothing to say and you make this thread and make long posts that say nothing just so that you can get some interaction and find some people who agree with you, even if the agreement is over nothing. Hmm.....and you think your pissin' in the wind is exciting somehow? Think again.
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