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Post by lolly on Sept 6, 2013 3:15:18 GMT -5
yep... everyone sees a picture of a pipe, sunflowers... sees is plain speak and sensory perceptions is spiritually loaded, but ask anyone what the picture is and they'll tell you.
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Post by freejoy on Sept 6, 2013 12:53:55 GMT -5
Maybe so but I don't experince it that way. I see a picture of a pipe. I know or believe we are all connected. Seeing a picture of a pipe happens in the world of the known and leaves no room for awe and real beauty. What U.G. was describing there is more some kind of realm of the unknown. Unknown, however, doesn't mean not having it seen before like something new or something you haven't been able to categorize before and can't find words for it. It's entirely possible to look at a dirty worn out shoe you've been wearing for years and be struck with awe by the indescribable beauty of it. Now, this sense of awe and real beauty isn't really happening in the unknown either since the awe and beauty are pointing to something familiar, something shared, something universal, something that makes it self-evident that what is seen there is the real deal. 'We are all connected' or 'oneness' are terms and phrases that try to capture exactly that, although very misleading if analyzed intellectually. Yes, I believe beauty is a pointer. I've often thought about the beauty we see in people. Sometimes I see certain people that others may consider ugly and I see them as beautiful. But then there are people who seem to be just beautiful. It's like the majority sees them as beautiful or maybe everyone would agree they are beautiful. Then I wonder are they pointing to God? Or did the universe just happen to spit out something beautiful this time. Creation doesn't seem fair at all. And the Saints say God is fair, just, and all these qualities. But the Saints aren't necessarily Enlightened. Oh well, it's Gods world to be fair or not fair if it likes.
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Post by enigma on Sept 6, 2013 13:14:55 GMT -5
Seeing a picture of a pipe happens in the world of the known and leaves no room for awe and real beauty. What U.G. was describing there is more some kind of realm of the unknown. Unknown, however, doesn't mean not having it seen before like something new or something you haven't been able to categorize before and can't find words for it. It's entirely possible to look at a dirty worn out shoe you've been wearing for years and be struck with awe by the indescribable beauty of it. Now, this sense of awe and real beauty isn't really happening in the unknown either since the awe and beauty are pointing to something familiar, something shared, something universal, something that makes it self-evident that what is seen there is the real deal. 'We are all connected' or 'oneness' are terms and phrases that try to capture exactly that, although very misleading if analyzed intellectually. Yes, I believe beauty is a pointer. I've often thought about the beauty we see in people. Sometimes I see certain people that others may consider ugly and I see them as beautiful. But then there are people who seem to be just beautiful. It's like the majority sees them as beautiful or maybe everyone would agree they are beautiful. Then I wonder are they pointing to God? Or did the universe just happen to spit out something beautiful this time. Creation doesn't seem fair at all. And the Saints say God is fair, just, and all these qualities. But the Saints aren't necessarily Enlightened. Oh well, it's Gods world to be fair or not fair if it likes. I don't see where fairness of justice has anything to do with creation or the creative force we call God. Those are human values originating in fear.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 13:48:03 GMT -5
I'm not crazy about UG, but in this quote he is spot on. Looking at the world like the lens of a camera is quite different than the kind of looking most people engage in. I often tell peeps that it is IMPOSSIBLE to take a photograph of a chair because the camera only sees "what is." The intellect, however, functions like a graphics generator hooked to a computer, and distinguishes "objects" only by imagining sets of abstract boundaries. We do not see a chair; we imagine a chair. Yes, U.G. describes it well. The seeing stays 'untouched'. The seeing 'is' touched...that's the point...
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Post by Reefs on Sept 7, 2013 2:53:45 GMT -5
Yes, U.G. describes it well. The seeing stays 'untouched'. The seeing 'is' touched...that's the point... Romantically touched?
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Post by laughter on Sept 7, 2013 3:09:49 GMT -5
The seeing 'is' touched...that's the point... Romantically touched? "touched by ya' uncle"
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Post by laughter on Sept 7, 2013 3:25:08 GMT -5
Seeing a picture of a pipe happens in the world of the known and leaves no room for awe and real beauty. What U.G. was describing there is more some kind of realm of the unknown. Unknown, however, doesn't mean not having it seen before like something new or something you haven't been able to categorize before and can't find words for it. It's entirely possible to look at a dirty worn out shoe you've been wearing for years and be struck with awe by the indescribable beauty of it. Now, this sense of awe and real beauty isn't really happening in the unknown either since the awe and beauty are pointing to something familiar, something shared, something universal, something that makes it self-evident that what is seen there is the real deal. 'We are all connected' or 'oneness' are terms and phrases that try to capture exactly that, although very misleading if analyzed intellectually. Yes, I believe beauty is a pointer. I've often thought about the beauty we see in people. Sometimes I see certain people that others may consider ugly and I see them as beautiful. But then there are people who seem to be just beautiful. It's like the majority sees them as beautiful or maybe everyone would agree they are beautiful. Then I wonder are they pointing to God? Or did the universe just happen to spit out something beautiful this time. Creation doesn't seem fair at all. And the Saints say God is fair, just, and all these qualities. But the Saints aren't necessarily Enlightened. Oh well, it's Gods world to be fair or not fair if it likes. How could there possibly be any justice from the perspective of an isolated individual regarding appearances given the magnitude of the multiplicity that one sees? How could the imperative for seeking justice be ignored when the inherent beauty of any single human being, regardless of appearance, is so self-evident? Resolving this requires perspective and doesn't result in either indifference to suffering or a devotion of ones life to chasing the chimera of justice.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 7, 2013 3:29:42 GMT -5
"touched by ya' uncle" Who's your daddy?
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Post by freejoy on Sept 7, 2013 9:49:44 GMT -5
Yes, I believe beauty is a pointer. I've often thought about the beauty we see in people. Sometimes I see certain people that others may consider ugly and I see them as beautiful. But then there are people who seem to be just beautiful. It's like the majority sees them as beautiful or maybe everyone would agree they are beautiful. Then I wonder are they pointing to God? Or did the universe just happen to spit out something beautiful this time. Creation doesn't seem fair at all. And the Saints say God is fair, just, and all these qualities. But the Saints aren't necessarily Enlightened. Oh well, it's Gods world to be fair or not fair if it likes. How could there possibly be any justice from the perspective of an isolated individual regarding appearances given the magnitude of the multiplicity that one sees? How could the imperative for seeking justice be ignored when the inherent beauty of any single human being, regardless of appearance, is so self-evident? Resolving this requires perspective and doesn't result in either indifference to suffering or a devotion of ones life to chasing the chimera of justice. I was talking about some kind of divine justice like karma. There are more people coming into this world. Where are they coming from, reincarnation? I don't see how. Even if some higher animals were evolving up into humans they should, it seems, come into being human at a low level, like starving people. But it seems the population is growing across the board, like you have as many educated people coming in as you do other people. I'm sure it's not exact but it doesn't seem that reincarnation is true. I also considered that everyone might not reincarnated exactly when they die but maybe at a later time. Like now. According to some Christian beliefs there is a thousand year millennial rain where everyone comes back that didn't get to hear the truth. Who knows maybe they are coming! I thought after one gets enlightened they know these kinds of things so one would/could be free. Like everyone is getting what they deserve. It seems Enlightenment is a sad state of affairs.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2013 10:54:49 GMT -5
The seeing 'is' touched...that's the point... Romantically touched? It's a Ménage à trois between the attention, thought and belief...
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Post by nowhereman on Sept 7, 2013 13:29:03 GMT -5
A lady or a musician? See both?
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Post by zendancer on Sept 7, 2013 13:35:12 GMT -5
How could there possibly be any justice from the perspective of an isolated individual regarding appearances given the magnitude of the multiplicity that one sees? How could the imperative for seeking justice be ignored when the inherent beauty of any single human being, regardless of appearance, is so self-evident? Resolving this requires perspective and doesn't result in either indifference to suffering or a devotion of ones life to chasing the chimera of justice. I was talking about some kind of divine justice like karma. There are more people coming into this world. Where are they coming from, reincarnation? I don't see how. Even if some higher animals were evolving up into humans they should, it seems, come into being human at a low level, like starving people. But it seems the population is growing across the board, like you have as many educated people coming in as you do other people. I'm sure it's not exact but it doesn't seem that reincarnation is true. I also considered that everyone might not reincarnated exactly when they die but maybe at a later time. Like now. According to some Christian beliefs there is a thousand year millennial rain where everyone comes back that didn't get to hear the truth. Who knows maybe they are coming! I thought after one gets enlightened they know these kinds of things so one would/could be free. Like everyone is getting what they deserve. It seems Enlightenment is a sad state of affairs. TMT
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Sept 7, 2013 14:29:19 GMT -5
A lady or a musician? See both? All I see is a man with a horsedíck smoking a pipe.
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Post by silver on Sept 7, 2013 14:37:13 GMT -5
A lady or a musician? See both? Yah, I see 'em - piece o' cake.
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Post by laughter on Sept 7, 2013 14:53:05 GMT -5
How could there possibly be any justice from the perspective of an isolated individual regarding appearances given the magnitude of the multiplicity that one sees? How could the imperative for seeking justice be ignored when the inherent beauty of any single human being, regardless of appearance, is so self-evident? Resolving this requires perspective and doesn't result in either indifference to suffering or a devotion of ones life to chasing the chimera of justice. I was talking about some kind of divine justice like karma. There are more people coming into this world. Where are they coming from, reincarnation? I don't see how. Even if some higher animals were evolving up into humans they should, it seems, come into being human at a low level, like starving people. But it seems the population is growing across the board, like you have as many educated people coming in as you do other people. I'm sure it's not exact but it doesn't seem that reincarnation is true. I also considered that everyone might not reincarnated exactly when they die but maybe at a later time. Like now. According to some Christian beliefs there is a thousand year millennial rain where everyone comes back that didn't get to hear the truth. Who knows maybe they are coming! I thought after one gets enlightened they know these kinds of things so one would/could be free. Like everyone is getting what they deserve. It seems Enlightenment is a sad state of affairs. The problem with the idea of karma is that you have to allow for the unlimited nature of what is subject to balance. The length of the arm on the blind scales of justice is immeasurable. Sure, we think we can catch glimpses of it operative here and there and can dream up all sorts of scenarios like you've done but there's no way for the mind to wrap itself around the whole enchilada.
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